Plot Theory I've been thinking of.

[zx12y]

I haven't played FF7 in ages, but have been tossing some ideas about the story around for awhile. This involves Cloud and Sephiroth in "Cloud's Past" in disc1, the flashback to Nibelheim at Kalm shortly after leaving Midgar.

What if the monster that Sephiroth released during this sequence was actually Cloud? It somewhat resembles Cloud, being a humanoid mako creature with spiky hair. Since Cloud was infused with mako, and we learn that he wasn't really there as he recalls, its possible he absorbed Zack's memories at that moment since Zack was nearby.

Sephiroth isn't really the main antagonist in the story, that role falls upon ShinRa and Hojo. Sephiroth guides the party through the storyline, periodically assisting the party by leaving summon material for them. So, Sephiroth released Cloud and then used him to accomplish his agenda. The response Cloud feels to Jenova in the canister at ShinRA HQ in disc1 mimics the response he gets looking at the creature in the canister during Cloud's Past.

I'm talking about the monster released from the canister at this part of the game:

http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/29euU5fNqk8/hqdefault.jpg

[VeloZer0]

????

The game itself it is fairly clear that Cloud is the original Cloud that grew up in Nibelheim. That's kind of the key item that gets sorted out by Tifa when they are in the lifestream.

[zx12y]

????

The game itself it is fairly clear that Cloud is the original Cloud that grew up in Nibelheim. That's kind of the key item that gets sorted out by Tifa when they are in the lifestream.

That's beside the point. Cloud grew up a normal person, but at one point he was infused with Mako. We don't actually know where the real Cloud is during Cloud's past.

And I don't know anything about the spin-off titles, so Cloud might have been infused at a different time, but I'm taking only the main title into consideration since that's what I'm familiar with.

[Slothy]

Theory doesn't fit since he was one of the regular Shinra soldiers that went to Nibelheim with Sephiroth and Zack. He couldn't have been in the chamber since he went to the reactor with them and was standing outside keeping Tifa out.

[zx12y]

Theory doesn't fit since he was one of the regular Shinra soldiers that went to Nibelheim with Sephiroth and Zack. He couldn't have been in the chamber since he went to the reactor with them and was standing outside keeping Tifa out.

I was thinking that might be the case. How explicit is the game in this? There were many soldiers there, and its possible Cloud yet again reabsorbed the memory of a nearby soldier. Being in the canister, and then being released into a charged environment would easily explain how the memories could be mixed in together in the first place.

[Slothy]

It's explicitly shown to be Cloud. The other compilation stuff, despite their many flaws, are also consistent on that point. Cloud was one of the soldiers that went with them to Nibelheim, and was shown to be the one guarding the reactor entrance when Zack and Sephiroth go in.

And after Cloud puts his mind and memories back together in the life stream I think it was pretty clear that he was able to sort his real memories from the fake ones at that point. I'm a bit fuzzier on that though. That said, I don't believe his false memories were the result of absorbing memories from Zack. It was just that he was there and when his mind was broken by the events and by the experiments on him later by Hojo, the memories of what he experienced with them got mixed up with his old memories and dream of joining Soldier. That's why he had gaps in his memory when he was telling the story in Kalm. He was missing chunks of what happened because other people experienced them while he wasn't there and he was only told so much by them.

[zx12y]

It's explicitly shown to be Cloud. The other compilation stuff, despite their many flaws, are also consistent on that point. Cloud was one of the soldiers that went with them to Nibelheim, and was shown to be the one guarding the reactor entrance when Zack and Sephiroth go in.

And after Cloud puts his mind and memories back together in the life stream I think it was pretty clear that he was able to sort his real memories from the fake ones at that point. I'm a bit fuzzier on that though. That said, I don't believe his false memories were the result of absorbing memories from Zack. It was just that he was there and when his mind was broken by the events and by the experiments on him later by Hojo, the memories of what he experienced with them got mixed up with his old memories and dream of joining Soldier. That's why he had gaps in his memory when he was telling the story in Kalm. He was missing chunks of what happened because other people experienced them while he wasn't there and he was only told so much by them.

Even still, its a pretty bizarre plot point to begin with. Being "shown" a flashback scene that never actually occurred in reality means the on-screen depiction of the characters is just a recollection, and subject to the same false memories that Cloud experienced.

That aside, is the beast that Sephiroth releases from the canister ever relevant to the story? It was a pretty dramatized scene with the only explanation for this specific action is Sephiroth's emotion or rage.

[VeloZer0]

Did he release it? I thought it just broke open of it's own accord.

[zx12y]

Did he release it? I thought it just broke open of it's own accord.

Final Fantasy VII Playthrough (54) Cloud's Past #5 - YouTube skip to around 2:00 minutes for the scene in question.

So, after watching it, I was incorrect about Cloud having a reaction to viewing the beast similar to when he views Jenova in Midgar, and Sephiroth doesn't directly release it. However, there is still a connection. Whenever Sephiroth comes into contact with Cloud during the main story, the audio track changes to suit a mode of distress, i.e. ringing ears, heavy heartbeat, ominous tones. In this way, Sephiroth has a sort of telepathic dominance over Cloud through the main story (more obvious at certain points than others).

Cloud's past is the period of time when Sephiroth becomes enlightened to his true potential. He doesn't yet understand the extent of his telepathic powers, or his ability to direct bodies non-physically as demonstrated by his "clones". The beast opening at the same time as Sephiroth's epiphany is more than mere coincidence; it is a consequence of the emotions being projected at the time. When Cloud looks at Jenova in Midgar, he is having an unconscious recollection of the repressed memory of being encapsulated and being connected to Jenova through Sephiroth.

[Psychotic]

I'm not sure that it was Cloud, but the similarities between Cloud and the creature that you noticed probably aren't a coincidence either. I think it could be foreshadowing on the part of the writers as to what Cloud is/could become.

[zx12y]

I'm not sure that it was Cloud, but the similarities between Cloud and the creature that you noticed probably aren't a coincidence either. I think it could be foreshadowing on the part of the writers as to what Cloud is/could become.

Well put! The writers wanted to make the event as impactful as possible so they made that scene resemble other parts of the story.

[Ayen]

Eeh, I see where you get the spikey hair part from but this creature never looked like Cloud to me.

[Bubba]

Mako_Monster.jpg Pic 2.png


Yeah, I really can't see it. The crazy hair is the only similarity but even then they are very different styles.

[Hollycat]

It's not hair on the mako rejects, it's spikes. If you play Crisis Core this becomes extra obvious as you fight like 5 of them.

I don't think there's any real reason to doubt cloud is cloud, especially since that would negate his whole revelation in FF7.
And if he was replaced with one, why wasn't Zack? And why would they even want cloud if they could duplicate a person with one of the abominations, after all, Zack is the most powerful thing Hojo has ever created, it wouldn't make sense to not duplicate him over and over if they could.

[zx12y]

It's not hair on the mako rejects, it's spikes. If you play Crisis Core this becomes extra obvious as you fight like 5 of them.

I don't think there's any real reason to doubt cloud is cloud, especially since that would negate his whole revelation in FF7.
And if he was replaced with one, why wasn't Zack? And why would they even want cloud if they could duplicate a person with one of the abominations, after all, Zack is the most powerful thing Hojo has ever created, it wouldn't make sense to not duplicate him over and over if they could.

I need some clarification. What revelation of Cloud's are you referring to? In the scene I'm talking about, isn't on-screen Cloud actually Zack anyways? I'm not really sure what the last point about Zack is referring to, it is bit of a hasty conclusion. As Vivi22 states, there were experiments done to Cloud, but I don't know enough about that plot point to know if it could coincide with Cloud's past.