Game Pros and Cons

[Pumpkin]

For both games, or one or the other, what would you say are the pros and cons of these games? Subjectively, I mean. What are things you liked about them and/or didn't like.

X:

Pros:
-A good number of playable characters
-Despite being so linear, it managed to not feel linear at all
-Interesting areas
-Good music
-Each character had an assigned role in battle, something I'm a huge fan of
-Some excellent, involving, touching moments
-Weapon customization
-Interesting races. Loved the Hypello
-Interesting fiends
-Al Bhed. Great having a second language to learn
-The overdrive system. Being able to choose how their gauge builds, and also being able to save it for a boss fight
-The Auron/Braska/Jecht side story
-Switching out characters in battle
-Keeping your aeons in battle, having their own HP and overdrive bar, etc

Cons:
-Seymour. And all 20 of the fights against him
-The main couple wasn't great for each other, imo
-Tidus
-Blitzball. I mean, I like the concept but being forced to play it is one of the moments I dread the most in game
-Takes a while to get all of the summons
-The Cloister of Trials. Good idea in theory, some of them were just a pain
-The Sphere Grid. Definitely not one of the series better ability systems
-The battle system. I miss the ATB

X-2:

Pros:
-The battle system. This is the one I like the most
-The mission system
-Alternate paths and decisions
-The classic job system, which I absolutely love
-the fun, lighthearted nature of the game
-Seeing how Yuna has developed and grown
-The subject of the two political systems, both with their faults
-Gippal
-Fun mini-games and sidequests
-Access to the airship right off the bat
-Seeing the world developed and changed over 2 years

Cons:
-Not many playable characters
-The pacing of the chapters. Chapter 4 didn't have enough and Chapters 3 and 5 were jam packed by compairison
-Calibrating those Lightning Rod Towers. Huge pain
-Some of the outfits bug me
-I like the lighthearted nature of the game for a sequel, but would have wanted it more serious if it were a main series game
-Bevelle Underground. This game is so easy until you do this part and its just ARGHGASDHAGDAKLFF
-Having to wait until New Game Plus for Mascot Dressphere
-The amount of AP needed to master the Alchemist Dressphere

[Pete for President]

X: what cons?

I'm a fanboy

[Karifean]

I find it hard to make a list like this. I love both these games and to me they're so packed with pros that any cons seem completely negligible and unimportant.

[black orb]

Pros:
-A good number of playable characters
-Despite being so linear, it managed to not feel linear at all
-Interesting areas
-Good music
-Each character had an assigned role in battle, something I'm a huge fan of
-Some excellent, involving, touching moments
-Weapon customization
-Interesting races. Loved the Hypello
-Interesting fiends
-Al Bhed. Great having a second language to learn
-The overdrive system. Being able to choose how their gauge builds, and also being able to save it for a boss fight
-The Auron/Braska/Jecht side story

Cons:
-Seymour. And all 20 of the fights against him
-The main couple wasn't great for each other, imo
-Tidus
-Blitzball. I mean, I like the concept but being forced to play it is one of the moments I dread the most in game
-Takes a while to get all of the summons
-The Cloister of Trials. Good idea in theory, some of them were just a pain
-The Sphere Grid. Definitely not one of the series better ability systems
-The battle system. I miss the ATB

>>> That whole list are pros to me, except for the Cloister of Trials part, it was really a pain..

About X-2...
pros: fun game
cons: the story was a joke
Thats pretty much everything I can say about that game..

[Bolivar]

I think the battle system is a little bit of both. While CTB is very well thought out and executed, I still miss my ATB

[magemasher]

I loved the in battle character switch on FFX

Blitzball- I've been undecided whether to buy the HD, blitzball made my decision.

It's quicker just to say I loved FFX, no cons

X-2 really didn't like it. 33% completion on my 1 and only playthrough, that was enough for me, all cons ツ

[Fynn]

FFX
Pros:
-mostly solid voice acting
-the Ronso (Kimahri is awesome)
-nice graphics for its time
-interesting idea for a world
-great idea for a battle system
-the expert sphere grid
-switching out characters in battle
-weapon customization
-side-quests involving extra summons and celestial weapons
-the summoning system
-gorgeous music, partly courtesy of my personal favorite - Masashi Hamauzu

Cons:
-I'm not a fan of the plot, characters and the writing overall. This is what kills this game for me. It's like none of the writers of this game understand the concept of subtlety or actual human emotions. Not gonna delve deeper into this, lest I turn this into a snarky hate-fest
-linear as smurf, which is probably not an issue if you like the story
-"religion is evil because it's religion, therefore evil!"
-death is so cheap in this world, why is everyone so afraid of Sin again? Just don't send them, they'll come back just like Seymour and the entire church of Yevon!
-the battle system would have been way more fun if I actually needed to strategize, you know, because everything was too easy here
-smurfin' Tidus
-smurfin' Seymour
-smurfin' Jecht! I mean, not as a human, but as a character. "Let's write him so one-dimensionally abusive that people sympathize with that Meg Ryan dude! Yeah, that's relatable!"
-forced love plot
-bonus: I didn't like that people didn't get the laughing scene was supposed to be awkward. That was one of the few moments that actually felt charming to me.

FFX-2
Pros:
-light and fun - it knows very well it's stupid, none of the delusions of grandeur X clearly had
-the main trio have great chemistry, even if they're a bit flat on their own
-fantaatic battle system
-the job system!!!
-the 1000 words scene - with that one scene and no dialogue whatsoever, this game made me feel so much more for Shuyin and Lenne that the entirety of X made me feel for Todus and Yuna
-non-linearity and missions

Cons:
-way, waaaay too stupid at times
-the music (with a few notable exceptions; ironically, the piano collections to this are superb)
-Shuyin
-Leblanc and her goons
-on that topic - Leblanc's massage scene made me feel very uncomfortable
-too much fanservice - what was the purpose of this? It's like the entire point of this game was to leave you with a few hours wasted and a sticky controller
-the plot makes no sense in the context of the world, while some visible changes were neat, I don't think society would change so much in such a short time
-the clothing designs. What the hell happened to Nooj?
-implied incest!
-the golden ending is too golden for my tastes, but I guess that's just the kinda guy I am.

[Sephiroth]

-death is so cheap in this world, why is everyone so afraid of Sin again? Just don't send them, they'll come back just like Seymour and the entire church of Yevon!

And eventually fade away by becoming monsters, with some exceptions that are stronger like Seymour, Trema, Yunalesca or Mika. And even they become monsters - still able to control themselves but who knows - wait for another 1000 years and maybe even they/their selves are gone completely.

All your cons are pros for me, except the laughing thing being incomprehensible for others. I don't care about that.

-implied incest!

Eh, Aniki is disgusting in general if you ask me and I don't like that part either as it totally disgusts me but cousins are allowed.

I find it hard to make a list like this. I love both these games and to me they're so packed with pros that any cons seem completely negligible and unimportant.

Pretty much this.

[Pumpkin]

I forgot to add the switching characters in battle and how the Aeons stay once summoned, so I added those. The massage scene makes me uncomfortable too.

[Fynn]

-death is so cheap in this world, why is everyone so afraid of Sin again? Just don't send them, they'll come back just like Seymour and the entire church of Yevon!

And eventually fade away by becoming monsters, with some exceptions that are stronger like Seymour, Trema, Yunalesca or Mika. And even they become monsters - still able to control themselves but who knows - wait for another 1000 years and maybe even they/their selves are gone completely.

All your cons are pros for me, except the laughing thing being incomprehensible for others. I don't care about that.

Except that's just what Yevon says and it may just as well be false propaganda, considering people like Belgemine and Maechen, who are both really old (Maechen is from Zanarkand) and not monstrous at all. And even if what Yevon says about the unsent is true, there's still the Farplane where you can just go and visit the dead. If your story relies heavily on the tragedy of Death, then having it be as unpermanent and trivial is a case of really sloppy writing. Again, I get the feeling the writers do not understand basic human emotion.

As for the religion aspect, I'm all for corrupt churches in my games as long as they have thought and respect put into them (Xenogears, FFTactisc, most recently - Bravely Default). Here it's just so dumb and heavy-handed I'm just speechless.

[Sephiroth]

You even see bodyless/unsents becoming monsters so I don't know how it is false propaganda which was never implied - that they are a bunch of asses we all have seen, of course. If you are very strong or just stay for a certain reason you can stay longer like Auron but if you don't accept death you get corrupted. People who fully accept death can even enter the farplane without being sent. They still send people after "betraying" Yevon as entering the Farplane os how it is supposed to be. No matter if the Audio Drama will continue something now or not - eventually it will happen, I guess - Yuna and that other guy are even mentioned as senders.

I am a very religious person but I don't take those stories personally or seriously. Lightning Returns with "allmighty God" and all was more "personally" for me but even there it was not shown to be what it was claimed to be, so the allmighty God and it is just a game anyway. There are certain no gos in games for me but those are more sexual and abusive then.

[magemasher]

The Cinema in Luca was cool. Where you could watch cutscenes again or listen to music.

[Karifean]

And eventually fade away by becoming monsters, with some exceptions that are stronger like Seymour, Trema, Yunalesca or Mika. And even they become monsters - still able to control themselves but who knows - wait for another 1000 years and maybe even they/their selves are gone completely.

It only took 2 years after FFX. In the end, Mika became a giant snail. What an undignified way to go. And Yunalesca became an incredibly powerful basilisk. Now that's more like it.

Though I shudder at the idea of Trema becoming a fiend. How much stronger would he become, I wonder?

[Fynn]

You even see bodyless/unsents becoming monsters so I don't know how it is false propaganda which was never implied - that they are a bunch of asses we all have seen, of course. If you are very strong or just stay for a certain reason you can stay longer like Auron but if you don't accept death you get corrupted. People who fully accept death can even enter the farplane without being sent. They still send people after "betraying" Yevon as entering the Farplane os how it is supposed to be. No matter if the Audio Drama will continue something now or not - eventually it will happen, I guess - Yuna and that other guy are even mentioned as senders.

I am a very religious person but I don't take those stories personally or seriously. Lightning Returns with "allmighty God" and all was more "personally" for me but even there it was not shown to be what it was claimed to be, so the allmighty God and it is just a game anyway. There are certain no gos in games for me but those are more sexual and abusive then.

My point remains - if people at large have real knowledge of what the afterlife looks like, it takes away all the tragedy of death. People fear death because they simply cannot know what happens until they die. Imagine that - even if you can't see those people or know that they are suffering but can be saved by this girl in your village, it really makes you much more at ease with death than when all you have are beliefs and assumptions. This is just what I mean - don't explain at length how this world's afterlife looks if you want to focus on death. A lot of other games do this right. Take Persona 3 - the main theme is death and dealing with the loss of someone dear. Once a character dies, they die and they stay dead. There are no implications whatsoever as to what happened to them later. The main characters just need to deal with that crushing feeling of emptiness by themselves. Heck, we don't even have to leave the series - FFIX's main theme was life and death as well! Vivi coming to terms with his eventual death is way more subtle and well written than anything brought in by X's script. I teared up at Vivi's letter. I could not feel a thing at the destruction of Kilika or operation Mi'ihen. Even if I know they might turn into monsters, FFX's world gives you proof that, yes, there is an afterlife. This severely cheapens the impact, and that is my opinion that has developed in me over the years, so I doubt there's anything you can do to change it

I am religious personally, but maybe I didn't word it well enough. I never said this offended me. I know this is a big thing in Japan, but a lot of my favorite games have the religious institution be the bad guys. FFTactics is one of my favorite games of all time, and yet the codex of Germonique could be considered almost blasphemous, what with Ajora (AKA Jesus) turning out to be an evil demon. And I still love it. I understand the Japanese don't like religion much, but the writers of Tactics did a much better job. Yes, the Church is power-hungry and corrupt, but there are plenty of people outside it who want to abuse it's power, just as there are many people within the Church unaware of it's machinations, but still being good people. Heck, it's implied Ramza stays religious even after all he finds out about this. That's called real faith. And then we have Xenogears where you have a bad god and a real God, but nobody knows about the real one and accidentally worships the bad one which is actually an intergalactic super weapon (to put it simply). Parts of the church are corrupt. Others work really hard to keep the world in one piece after trout hits the fan. What happens in X? Yes, there are good people in Yevon, but once they find out it's evil, they abandon it without a second thought. That's not how faith works. Everybody's just kinda okay with it, when there should be riots, suicides, any sort of conflict. That's my problem with this game's depiction of religion - not that it's evil and corrupt (I got used to that), but that it wasn't given much thought and turns out one-dimensionally evil, and all the masses that were being influenced by Yevon all their lives are suddenly all OK with abandoning religion. Again, understanding of basic human emotion.

[Pumpkin]

I'm religious and I didn't really take offense to the game. I know the Catholic Church has done some crummy things throughout history, as have a lot of religions. You can have faith separate from the Church, it's a matter of what you believe. You don't need the Church to believe in God. I took this to mean more of a "don't blindly follow things, because in the end these things are still run by people and people can get things wrong and people can be corrupt and people can abuse their power." Which is true.

The Final Aeon/Sin thing ended up being a bunch of baloney, but it started with good intentions. They found a way to defeat Sin, but Sin would come back. So they continued the process because they figured getting rid of him for a little while was better than never getting rid of him. Then people became corrupt and instead of trying for more solutions as time progressed, they just spun this terrible thing (Sin) to their advantage to gain power. You can see some clear cases of corruption, and some more minor, like how they ban the use of machina except for themselves.

I think the game also shows a few instances of believing and respecting Yevon, without following the teaching to the T and blindly following whatever Yevon says. Rikku does this early in the game when she warns Tidus to not mention Zanarkand as Yevon says it's a holy place and he might offend someone. This shows she isn't just giving a big F U to Yevon and she respects others beliefs. The Crusaders knowingly and willingly go against the teachings even though they strongly believe in them, because they're trying to do what's right. Cid and some of the Al Bhed sing the Hymn of the Fayth, not knowing its true origins, but knowing it is currently associated with Yevon and teachings they don't necessarily follow.

I never took the meaning to mean that Faith is bad, religion is bad, but more of acknowledging that it has good intentions, but sometimes it falls short or takes a wrong path. So don't blindly follow things and instead question why things are done the way they are and decide for yourself what's right and wrong, a message I agree with.

EDIT: This isn't me arguing with you, Fynn, just to be clear. I understand and respect your opinion, I'm just talking about how the religious theme came across to me :P