Knights are the best job class, and I am prepared to defend that statement.

[mog42]

Yeah, I totally agree with you. This thread needs to be about plain generic knights or it will just be pointless.

[Edgar]

Knights are knights, they break things using physical.
Holy Knights, Dark Nights, etc are what i call 'Blessed Knights by God). And they do damage by holiness.

THEY ARE NOT THE SAME!!!!

Kngihts DO NOT have a Holy knight's ability anyway

[Jay Ayanami]

Your OPINION notwithstanding, I have used since the beginning of this thread "Knights" as a term referring to all Knight classes. I would not include Orlandu on my team if I restricted myself to Knight.

Note now that I did not mean you have no right to your opinion of what a Knight is. I simply meant that your opinion is meaningless here, since "Knight" had already been previously qualified. We are discussing this topic within the context of "Knight" being any type of unit with Knight abilities. It may not be the right definition, but it is the one which has been established for use within this thread.

Just so we are all on the same page.

(At any rate, think about this logically... why would I say a plain Knight is the best when others, such as Divine Knight, are clearly superior? I was not even listing them as the best as a result of their break abilities. I think those abilities suck. It's their non-Break abilities that make them good.)

[Mecha Sepheroth]

Heres my anser your an ass Ninjas are by far man.

[Jay Ayanami]

"Heres my anser your an ass Ninjas are by far man. "

If only that made sense. Here is my response:

"Heres" should be "Here's" (It's a conjunction!); "anser" is not a word - "answer" is, however; you need a period after "anser"; "your" is the possessive form of "you" - "You're" would have done fine (It's also the beginning of a new sentence so go ahead and capitalize it.); good job on not forgetting to use "an" instead of "a" before a word beginning with a vowel; you need a period after "ass"; you need a comma after "far"; the last sentence does not make sense - perhaps consider rephrasing it thus: "Ninjas are better by far, man.".

Okay, I am not that anal, but I think you get the picture. I don't take a post containing grammar of that level seriously.

But if I did, I would say you are wrong. I won't bother to argue what I have already said. If you are curious as to what I would have said, refer to the previous posts.

Also, let's not stoop to unnecessary verbal insults. There is no purpose in being petty here.

[Ragnarok]

Dude lighten up, its not like he killed somebody. It's just a typo.

[mog42]

Originally posted by Jay Ayanami

We are discussing this topic within the context of "Knight" being any type of unit with Knight abilities. It may not be the right definition, but it is the one which has been established for use within this thread.

That isn't a very good definition of Knight because most knight abilities aren't that good. Battle skill has such a low hit percentage that it is usually better to attack with a normal physical attack. Weapon guard and the Equip abilities are generally worthless because better support and reaction abilities are available.

[Ragnarok]

To save this thread I will say that Knights are a pretty good class as equipment goes but their abilities could be better. There are much better classes you could use but knights arent bad.

[Jay Ayanami]

We are not debating (or should not be, at least) the term "Knight". I call it "Knight" simple because it has "Knight" in the name. I include Holy Swordsman because it has Knight abilities. It is a sound definition for this reason only. If I was addressing the issue with regard to the difference of ability, then I would use your definition. However, it has been made clear that in this context, the definition includes "all those" Knight classes. It depends on what your need is as to whether or not is a good definition.

Next, let me make it clear that I think Knights have bad act abilities. HOWEVER, this is all overshadowed by the other benefits you get with the Knight class. Thus, overall, they are the best class.

Q. E. D.!!!

[mog42]

Well, here's a list of pro's and con's for the knight class.

Pro:
Able to equip knight swords and heavy armor
Battle Skills are good in theory
High HP and PA

Con:
Low MA and MP
No ranged attacks
Battle skill is extremely unreliable

It's a pretty average class in my opinion. There are other classes that are more useful, like monks and lancers.

[Notti]

In the very title of this thread you say "Knights are the best job class". If you meant to include all the SPECIAL knight related classes that only one person on your team could ever use you should've said "classes". Anyway, it's not like it's that bad. Regular Knights do above average in hypothetical duels due to Knight Swords, Shields, and their ability to chip away at stats. They lose out on Hats though.

If you insist on including all special knights, could you list the specific jobs and the the names of the wielders? (ex: Holy Swordsman - Orlandu)

Also, unlike your first "strat" post at the beginning of the thread, I disagree very much on Grand Helmets and Maximillians being better than Thief Hats and Robe of Lords. If you were truly including people like Orlandu you should've given him a Thief Hat.

[Jay Ayanami]

Notti, I don't know if you read what I said, but I stated that there would be no point in favoring a Knight over a Holy Swordsman, so it would have been foolish to me to refer exclusively to Knight. I explained why I included Holy Swordsman above.

People fail to be objective; they are too compelled by the suckiness of the Break skill set. My point is that it is the other attributes of the Knight is what makes them the best.

I choose HP over speed simply because Excalibur already caters to that need. While Robe of Lords may increase MA attack power and MP, which each seem to give an advantage, it is again a moot point. Five Knights attacking with Holy is overkill. Adding extra MA is just adding more overkill. MP does not matter at all.

[Blackmage]

Damn...I can't believe that this thread is STILL going. Yeesh. As far as taking out your knights goes, Lv. 98 Monks should do the trick. Deck them out with the following:

*Jump (with max range)
*Dragon Spirit
*Defense UP
*Move +2

*Black Costume
*Thief Hat
*Bracers

-The problem with weapons in FFT is that they aren't as powerful as fists, in the end. You can give Orlandu an Excalibur, and you wouldn't come close to the capability of damage that a Monk's bare fists would give. Monks usually do 999 damage when that high in level.
-These monks would be a notch harder to hit with Calculator spells on account of an impossible-to-hit level number.
-Even if you can give good damage with your blades, the Defense UP would help compensate for the lack of HP the monks get.
-Dragon Spirit's just plain annoying. At least I'd find it to be annoying if my enemies would reraise themselves.
-Movement is at 6. That's just plain nice.
-Jump would get a low-HP monk out of the way and still cause damage; even if it didn't damage, they can't be hit when in the air.
-The hat gives them a base speed advantage over the knights, if I am not mistaken. Not much good for anything else.

I dunno if this would work or not. I'd say it'd be a close match, especially if you're including Orlandu and the unique knights.

[Summon Illusion]

Ok, let's say like everyone else in this thread besides you the term knight was directly defined to the class knight, with the exact same name instead of holy knights, divine knights, arc knights, dark knights, and holy swordsman which just have the name knight in them.
Oh, and considering that everyone besides you who started the topic was confused with the header, I'd say that you should have made it more specific, because we all did think you were talking about knight, as in knight (obvious reasons why...)

Now, let's say it was just knight as in, knights. In that case, would you still say that? It seems like the whole knights issue is a backup in the case some argument came about the original strategy. To me, at least.

Oh yeah, don't forget this strategy assumes that everyone's at level 99. Maybe that's true in your game, which random battle monsters are equal to your level, but that isn't neccessarily the case with everyone. You'd have a bit of a hard time.

I'd have to gree here that thief hat's more useful than the other. +2 speed is a gift from god, and the don'tmove don'tact cancelings come in handy very frequently.

I feel that somewhat your comparings to the referall knight to all classes that look like knights is unfair. I mean, this is the MIDDLE AGES. DUH, most of the special classes would have the knight concept in it. What else do you expect? - -;;
I suppose we should include squire now as a knight class as well, which would make ramza's guts part of the knight class.

Additionally, is it really interesting to compare generic classes with NPC characters? It's not really interesting, (cheat) Orlandu would win every single time.

[mog42]

Originally posted by Kuja Highwind
-The problem with weapons in FFT is that they aren't as powerful as fists, in the end. You can give Orlandu an Excalibur, and you wouldn't come close to the capability of damage that a Monk's bare fists would give. Monks usually do 999 damage when that high in level.
-These monks would be a notch harder to hit with Calculator spells on account of an impossible-to-hit level number.

Yeah, I agree that monks would be able to kill knights very easily, especially if skills from other jobs are allowed. Unfortunately, monks will never do 999 damage under normal circumstances. The formula for barefist damage is PA*[PA*Brave/100]. This amounts to PA^2 with 100 brave. Without level up/down, a monk won't have PA higher than the mid 20's at level 99, meaning they will only do 400-600 damage.

Also, no one is ever immune to math skill because of being at level 98. For some reason, CT 4 usually targets all units when it's used on the first turn of combat. I don't know why, but it probably means that the number of clock ticks it takes for the math skill person to get a turn is a multiple of 4, so 4 is a factor of everyone's CT.

For the purpose of saving this thread, I'm proposing that knight be defined as the generic job class. No special classes are included here because everyone agrees that they are more powerful than the normal job classes.