Knights are the best job class, and I am prepared to defend that statement.

[FatherOfChrono]

werd

[Jay Ayanami]

Just so you know, I am the one who contacted the mod, so there is no reason for you to feel supported. In fact, I have included a chat transcript for all of your entertainment! I am sure you will find it funny since I found it hilarious. And since it is pretty much a slander against me, you should think it downright "put me in stitches" material. Of course I found it funny for many different reasons (Oh, and if you think that I may have altered it in any way, just IM me or e-mail me; I think you will find that my contact information has remained clearly posted. If not, AYANAMIJ is my AIM screen name and you can e-mail me at that hotmail extention!). Nevertheless ...

ONWARD!

I readily admit that I make typographical errors. I never denied that I was a mere human. I however rarely make spelling errors because if I am using a word, it is a word I am comfortable with using and am familiar with. If I need to use a word I am unfamiliar with, I look it up in the dictionary. At any rate, yes, I know I make typographical errors. Although I think you will find me a bit less touchy than yourself about being corrected for it. Oh, and on a side note, I do like the way I had originally phrased that sentence because I wanted to indicate that there was a construction of my persona which had already built.

Moving on ...

The Monk's Earth Slash would be renedered much less powerful since, unlike the computer, I have the sense not to group my people all in one line.

Summon Illusion, I don't know why you are here. Didn't you say that you were leaving this thread? You say you returned since Britt was here and then you continue to post in opposition to me later? How odd! I'll simply say that typing correctly here makes for good practice for typing correctly when it is necessary. Feel free to disagree, but I feel that there is no reason not to use correct grammar for the benefits if being right outweigh the benefits of being lazy.

Chrono - I agree. I don't see why people are taking things so personally. I do not mean to make personal comments and am often careful to phrase things that might be seen as pejorative in Modus Ponens format. However, people are so sensitive that they automatically assume it was an insult.

Mog - I know that they do not have any long range attacks (actually, they do, since I am including Orlandu); you will notice that I am using them in conjunction with the Calculator skill set which is not limited by radius.

P. S. I am fully aware that you need not be on level 99 to be good. However, I can calculate via any number of other factors. One way or another, I can attack.

---

el loco cebras: you cant ignore me you bastard
Ayanami J: Excuse me, who are you? Did you expect me to reply to someone who keeps calling me a bastard?
el loco cebras: i thought you might
el loco cebras: neeya
Ayanami J: Well, you would at least seem to owe me an explanation of why you think I am a bastard, though you have ever right to call me whatever you like.
Ayanami J: *every
el loco cebras: are you sure you want to knwo who i am
Ayanami J: It does not really matter, does it?
el loco cebras: yes it does
Ayanami J: I simply asked for a reason why you think I am a bastard.
Ayanami J: Okay, if that is how you feel.
el loco cebras: you want to know why i think you are a bastard?
Ayanami J: I don't see how I could not wonder.
el loco cebras: well you are black for starters
el loco cebras: and you oppose cactus
Ayanami J: I am not back, but go on.
Ayanami J: *black
el loco cebras: and knights are a suck ass job class
Ayanami J: No, they are quite good.
el loco cebras: that might narrow it down
el loco cebras: no they arent
Ayanami J: Oh, I figured you were from EOFF.
el loco cebras: lancers are better
Ayanami J: Lancers are good, yes.
el loco cebras: better than knights
el loco cebras: knights have to range
Ayanami J: You are free to that opinion.
Ayanami J: Yes, I know.
el loco cebras: appearantly not since you attack everyone
Ayanami J: I did not attack anyone. I am simply arguing a point, which I am free to do.
el loco cebras: no you didnt
el loco cebras: you attacked that person for misspelling a word
el loco cebras: then you started attacking everyoen else
Ayanami J: It was not an attack. I think the comment was preceded by my comment which is that I was only living up to that person's expectations.
Ayanami J: I believe that is what I said, at least.
el loco cebras: well if that was what you said then i guess hitler was just making a few comments too huh?
el loco cebras: you nazi
Ayanami J: If someone has already made up their mind about me, then I see no reason I should not live up to that expecation. All in all, that person has made up their mind about me, so I may as well not waste my time with niceties.
el loco cebras: i think you are a homo
el loco cebras: so you should go have sex with guys
Ayanami J: You seem to be more of a nazi than me, due to your apparent hatred of black people.
el loco cebras: and live to my expectations
Ayanami J: Petty insults, say what you like. You know nothing about me.
el loco cebras: i never said that
el loco cebras: you did
el loco cebras: nazi
Ayanami J: "el loco cebras: well you are black for starters"
el loco cebras: i know enough to tell you that you are a conceited bastard
el loco cebras: i said back
Ayanami J: Again, call me what you like. You really do not know anything about me.
el loco cebras: back from buttsex
el loco cebras: i know everything
el loco cebras: me and cactus
Ayanami J: That is not what you said.
el loco cebras: and robert fulmer
el loco cebras: i will learn you
el loco cebras: neeya
Ayanami J: What do you hope to accomplish by insulting me. This is just the internet. It is of no consequence.
el loco cebras: is that a challenge
Ayanami J: There is no need for me, or you, to get bent out of shape over a trivial debate at EOFF.
el loco cebras: it has nothing to do with the debate
el loco cebras: you were being an asshole to everyone
el loco cebras: for no reason
Ayanami J: Not at all, I am simply saying that perhaps that we have a disagreement over FFT, but it is no reason to hate eachother.
el loco cebras: becasue of their opinions
Ayanami J: Not at all.
el loco cebras: yes
Ayanami J: I have been civil, which is more than I can say for you at the moment.
el loco cebras: i am civil
el loco cebras: you are a bastard
Ayanami J: Well, did you not call me a homo, a nazi, and a bastard?
Ayanami J: That seems a bit uncivil to me.
el loco cebras: neeya
Ayanami J: You have already built a construct of evil for my character. I cannot convince you otherwise. I don't see what this is going to accomplish.
Ayanami J: I am sure that if you knew me in real life, you would find me a most pleasant and amicable person.
el loco cebras: stop talking all big
Ayanami J: "All big" - What do you mean by that?
el loco cebras: you attacked everyone for no reason
el loco cebras: you hypocrit
Ayanami J: I did not attack everyone for no reason.
el loco cebras: you arnet innocent in this
Ayanami J: In your humble opinion.
Ayanami J: It seems to me that everyone else is as much guilty of attacking me as I am of "attacking" them.
el loco cebras: why did you call people stupid who start sentences with "i think"
el loco cebras: you coon
Ayanami J: I simply stated a fact. In good rhetoric, you do not use a) the pronoun "I" b) the phrase "I think".
el loco cebras: no you didnt you lying bastard
Ayanami J: If you want to write persuasive prose, your thesis begins with a statement that you propose is true. Then you support it with evidence.
el loco cebras: you flat out attacked him
el loco cebras: you spearchucker
Ayanami J: No, I did not. Please read the post again. You will find that I was only speaking about proper writing in prose.
el loco cebras: you lie like an eagle
el loco cebras: and a spider
el loco cebras: neeya
Ayanami J: Eagles and spiders are animals and they do not lie.
el loco cebras: you called him a moron
el loco cebras: yes they do
Ayanami J: Please read my post.
el loco cebras: fine you tree spider
el loco cebras: Only morons with little knowldge of rhetoric begin a persuasive statement with "I think...". When you write an essay, especially a persuasive essay, you state your point of view as a fact. You don't say "It is my belief that Leviathan is the best because..."; you say "Leviathan is the best because...".

el loco cebras: how is calling someone a moron stating an opinion?
el loco cebras: you dont need to call him a moron
el loco cebras: you nazi
Ayanami J: "Only morons with little knowldge of rhetoric begin a persuasive statement with "I think..."."
Ayanami J: Read farther into that sentence.
Ayanami J: It was hypothetical. I did not say "and that is what you did".
el loco cebras: yes you did
el loco cebras: you racist
Ayanami J: I simply said that if someone were to take that stance, then they would be a moron.
Ayanami J: Racist? Hardly. I myself am an ethnic minority.
el loco cebras: there arent many bastards around these days huh?
el loco cebras: are the bastards supressed?
Ayanami J: I hardly think that "bastard" is an ethnic minority.
el loco cebras: ys it is
el loco cebras: you nazi
Ayanami J: Anyone of any race can be a "bastard".
el loco cebras: keep it up mexican
Ayanami J: I believe that since I am not of the "perfect aryan race" that I do not qualify to be a nazi.
Ayanami J: "el loco cebras: keep it up mexican" Now aren't you being racist?
el loco cebras: you must be chinese
Ayanami J: I am not Chinese.
el loco cebras: no i was stating an opinion
el loco cebras: you are something of the sort
Ayanami J: I think you are being a bit racist. It seems to me that you suggest any Asian must be Chinese or "something of the sort".
el loco cebras: i am speaking in terms of the third perosn character of the second degree proclimation
el loco cebras: neeya
Ayanami J: You don't know what you are talking about. "Proclimation" is not even a word.
el loco cebras: im done with you now
el loco cebras: yes it is
Ayanami J: "Proclamation, however, is".
el loco cebras: i made it up
Ayanami J: Oh, I see. Very well then.
el loco cebras: dont patronize me you bastard
Ayanami J: I am not patronizing you.
el loco cebras: yes you are
el loco cebras: i will learn you
Ayanami J: As you like it.
Ayanami J: Learn is not a verb.
el loco cebras: i am learning you a lesson
Ayanami J: If you warn me again, then I will block you.
el loco cebras: do it you bastard
el loco cebras: im everywhere

[FatherOfChrono]

omg u guys .. get girlfriends: (you) + (your girlfriend) = (more happiness than arguing on here IMHO (assuming your are both guys)).

[Blackmage]

Jay, what exactly do your "knights" have equipped, and, more importantly, which of the "knights" are you using for your team?

[screwtifa]

I don't think Knights are the best class by themselves. I think that they are very good if they have skills from other classes though. I have a knight that has jump level ten, and two swords. He's probably my best guy.

I think this could have all been settled if square would release fft for the computer, and have internet play.

[Ferenan]

Umm..Jay, the point is..you corrected my grammar and your being picky and snooty. your "Replies" may be witty and thought out, but your just coming off as a snobby prick to me. I don't like snobby pricks. i like communicating with people who don't give a damn about their spelling as long as its understandable. And if your in the right, so many people wouldn't be disagreeing with you. What you think doesn't matter, the majority of thought does. Anyways, you didn't respond to my ninja idea at having them at level 98 and fully grown as ninjas having them cast level 3 death. I would have more speed than you and it would be hard to avoid death every single time. My ninjas would also have a faith of 3 making it hard to just hurt them with holy. As for equiptment..well..it doesnt matter much. All the best storebought stuff will do. An item with haste would help too.

[Mwork]

Well, with a Faith of 3, you might as well forget about ever winning that battle via calculated Death.

It would work better for the Ninja to have high Faith (94 at most), be equipped with a Ribbon or any other piece of equipment that cancels Death, and Setiemson equipped.

The Ninja will take the first five turns. You can calculate a Lv. 3 Death and, your high Faith combined with the Knight's good Faith, and you're very likely to kill them all in that first turn. If it doesn't work, however, you have four more Ninja to cast the spell.

There is no way the Knights could survive that.......unless they have low Faith for some reason...... O_o

[Ferenan]

Erhh right, thats what i meant. High faith :P But yeah, i would get first turn and since your based on using holy, its almost certain the ninjas would wipe them out.

[Jay Ayanami]

"omg u guys .. get girlfriends: (you) + (your girlfriend) = (more happiness than arguing on here IMHO (assuming your are both guys))."

Well I already have one and I do not think that I need another. Even so, I fail to see how this pertains to the matter at hand.

"Jay, what exactly do your "knights" have equipped, and, more importantly, which of the "knights" are you using for your team?"

I have already stated this previously in the thread. You should have read it; it is not my responsibility to re-iterate. Let me make it clear that I am using the optimum Knight, so I am probably going to want Orlandu if we include special classes.

"I don't think Knights are the best class by themselves. I think that they are very good if they have skills from other classes though."

Which is basically what I am asserting.

"Umm..Jay, the point is..you corrected my grammar and your being picky and snooty. your "Replies" may be witty and thought out, but your just coming off as a snobby prick to me. I don't like snobby pricks."

Call me a prick if you like. Know at least that I have not lowered myself to sniveling at percieved insults. I admit my foibles and move on. You would do well to benefit from that lesson.

I never claimed that my arguments are well though out at all. I simply type them and let them go. Clearly, if I did organize them properly, then there would be far fewer typographical errors.

I only corrected your grammar because you made it clear initially what your attitude toward me was. I only lived up to that construct. I figure, in my mind, why not be an anal retentive "prick" if someone has already decided that I am and in all liklihood will not change their opinion?

"i like communicating with people who don't give a damn about their spelling as long as its understandable. And if your in the right, so many people wouldn't be disagreeing with you."

That it is what you like is no reason for me to conform to it. I am not here to impress you or anyone else. I am here because I find it entertaining and beneficial. On the second point, your logic is flawed and I think you will see how in the following sentece I post.

"What you think doesn't matter, the majority of thought does."

That is so totally wrong that it is ridiculous. In the early days of America, most every person believed that the place of the African American in society was as a slave. Even a great deal of black people themselves, having been brainwashed my whites, believed this was true. However, revolutionaries changed the way despite what the general consensus was. And what about Einstien? No one really thought the universe was relative until he developed many of the theories of relativity that we use today. Before Newton, we never had derrivation or integration. I think you see my point.

"Anyways, you didn't respond to my ninja idea at having them at level 98 and fully grown as ninjas having them cast level 3 death. I would have more speed than you and it would be hard to avoid death every single time."

Level 3 Death rarely works - ESPECIALLY when you have faith 3. In any case, I have Haste and can calculate by a different factor (probably CT). Ninjas have low HP and they would be easily wiped out with one wave of Calculated attacks. There are any number of spells to choose from though if necessary, I can resort to physical attacks. I need to simply stay out of your range or sacrifice one Knight to lure a Ninja or Ninjas into attack or Holy Explosion range.

"My ninjas would also have a faith of 3 making it hard to just hurt them with holy. As for equiptment..well..it doesnt matter much. All the best storebought stuff will do. An item with haste would help too."

If you had Haste, you would get your turn first in all liklihood. However, I doubt you would be able to attack me within range on the first turn. Typically the combatants are positioned at opposite sides of the fighting arena. See above for the rest of my strategy.

"There is no way the Knights could survive that.......unless they have low Faith for some reason...... O_o"

Ah yes, the infamous Mwork, who has been trying to bring me down from the very beginning. Good to see you. There is no reason to assume that it would kill all five Knights. Even if it did, I would only need to make a few alterations to my team in order to win. The key here is that everyone has been designing teams to specifically fight my team. Often they would fare well against my team but fail on many levels against other teams. Say, for instance, if I had an item that equipped against Death. In that case there would be little chance of you winning at all.

"Erhh right, thats what i meant. High faith :P But yeah, i would get first turn and since your based on using holy, its almost certain the ninjas would wipe them out."

Somehow, I find that hard to fathom as there is a big difference between 3 Faith and high Faith. It does not look typographical to me. I am not based on using Holy. I just use that attack because it works well in general. There are any number of attacks I can fall back on. Even so, I could always simply equip something that protects against Death!

[Mwork]

'''''There is no reason to assume that it would kill all five Knights'''''

It's very likely, though. For your Math Skillin' Knights to be as effective with spells as you've said they are, they'd need a decently high Faith stat.....85 or so? And with the Ninja's Faith of 94, once calculated Death spell would have about an 80% chance of hitting. That's good on its own, but it's just about a guarantee it'll hit all the Knights if that 80% chance spell is calculated five times....




'''''Even if it did, I would only need to make a few alterations to my team in order to win.'''''

Yeah, I know that. But then, Ferenan would only have to adjust his strategy a tad (like, say, calculating Petrify, a more accurate spell, instead of Death) to beat that new party.

Then you could change the Knights some more to beat that party, then Ferenan could change his Ninja to beat the new Knights, and so on and so forth........I can't see where it would end....



'''''The key here is that everyone has been designing teams to specifically fight my team. Often they would fare well against my team but fail on many levels against other teams.'''''

Often, you say?

The party of Lancers, the Wizards, and the Ninja as well, would all fare very well against other teams, actually factually. They are all very good at handling varied groups of enemies.

[Summon Illusion]

Is there really an ultimate team? Both sides are changing their parties drastically to counter each other, so this is just not gonna go anywhere...I'd say they're all ultimate teams. everyone, throw in a towel please? - -;;

[Mwork]

Originally posted by Summon Illusion
Is there really an ultimate team? Both sides are changing their parties drastically to counter each other, so this is just not gonna go anywhere...I'd say they're all ultimate teams. everyone, throw in a towel please? - -;;

There we go!


That's what I've been trying to say for a loooong time; no party is invincible. You just tweak a setup a bit to beat an alleged ultimate party to beat it, then you change that party to win, then the other......

Every setup has another setup that can beat it...

[Yuffie is a B****]

Jay if you keep flaming people and trying to look cool *snorts* than this thread will be locked. Can you guys stop bickering like immature elementry students and get back to having an intelgent debate?
ANyway Mwok I see where your coming from but ultimate does NOT mean ubeatlbl just the best. Notice hwo he said ulimate not perfect. The ultimate team would be the strongest and most effecient not neserily the team thay couldn't be beat.

[Blackmage]

Alright. At least as far as attempting to defeat your knights, I believe I may have a slightly better solution to the matter.

*Lv. 98 Female Ninjas

*Equipped Items*
*Rubber Conscious
*Thief Hat
*Setiemson

*Abilities*
*Math Skill
*Blade Grasp
*Martial Arts
*Move +2

Jay, a MAJOR problem with your knights is the fact that they are a part of the lowest speed characters. They have have Haste, indeed, but any other class (Minus the lancer and samarai) with Haste is faster than your team. I've chosen the Ninja class to exploit that weakness in speed, regardless of their lack of HP that your knights can easily take advantage of without proper protection.
*In the first round, I'd simply cast L3 Doubt Faith until your entire team has innocent, making your Holy trick, as well as any other magic, not work when under the effects of the status; since I have 5 people going at it with the L3 Doubt Faith, depending on your evade, 5 attempts is more than enough to make your team innocent. My team also wouldn't move anywhere, starting them off with a CT bonus for not moving. Orlandu would probably be able to take out one of my chicks as long as he gets Holy Explosion in range. Your other knights would be just wandering around since they can only attack and use their break abilities.
*Second round comes. Supportive spells and initial attacking on my part. Orlandu will either come close to, or kill another one of my chicks; but depending on how close some of my people are to yours, you MAY kiss some of them good-bye. Especially if Orlandu is in range of hitting someone with Holy Explosion.
*Third round. My team will start ganging up on Orlandu. 6 attempted hits would more than likely be enough to have him be hit at least once, if not twice. Kiss ranged attacks good-bye. Your knights may hit one of my three people, depending on the success rate of Blade Grasp, killing yet another one of my people.
*Fourth Round. Calculated Raise 2 on my chicks to get at least two of them revived. If Innocent has worn off by this time, then I'll try to re-cast it. We'll say that it did wear off and I only managed to get three of the four to be innocent, with the guilty knight reviving Orlandu. We'll also say you killed one of the revived chicks.
*Fifth Round. I make sure all of your knights have Innocent. If possible, I'll make an attempt on Orlandu's life. We'll say I don't succeed in doing that. Orlandu then kills that person trying to kill him.
*Sixth round. I manage to revive two of my people, bringing me up to a total of four people. The other one who doesn't revive goes up to Orlandu and succeeds in killing him. We'll have one of your guys kill one of mine.
*Seventh round. I kill another one of your knights with all three of them ganging up on him. We'll say that you've killed one of them.
*Eighth Round. I have one person revive one person. The other one misses a knight. Then that knight will kill him.
*Ninth Round. I have one person revive another one again. Those then gang-bang on a knight, succeeding to kill him. You completely miss me this round.
*Tenth Round. If Innocent has worn off, recast. I get lucky and manage to get all three of them to be Innocent again. You kill another one of my people.
*Eleventh Round. Both of my people gang up on another one of your knights, succeeding in defeating him. You manage to defeat one of my two people.
*Twelveth Round. That person revives another. That other person revives yet another, but you kill the one that I last revived.
*Thirteenth Round. Both of my people gang up on the last knight, but miss. You kill one of my two people.
*Fourteenth Round. I kill your last knight.

Before you say anything about that, I know that a large portion of it is based on luck. But seeing how I have Blade Grasp and the pre-emptive attack on every round, that makes things go my way.

I also have an alternative team.
*Lv. 98 Monks
*Rubber Conscious
*Feather Mantle
*Math Skill
*Blade Grasp
*Magic Defend UP
*Move +3
No haste, but the Feather Mantle's evade as well as the Blade Grasp would make them bloody hard to hit without concentrate. The Magic Defend UP would help them with your Calc. attacks and my lack of HP.

Unfortunately, the only way to tell if any of these setups ever thought up on this thread would work is if we could actually play it out in the game.

And NEVER underestimate the powers of statuses.

[Summon Illusion]

Personally, I'm finding it impressive that this thread is showing very impressive parties that are quite likely to beat sucha team, especially when it's NPC versus generic. Quite impressive, if you ask me.