Knights are the best job class, and I am prepared to defend that statement.

[Jay Ayanami]

I'll say it again, Lans. You are no better than anyone else here, so don't act superior.

"Go ahead and use Level3 holy. You'll be healing 400 hp to my wizards. This just shows what an incompetent commander is capable of."

Actually, if you were actually reading my post, you would have seen that I said "I only have to cast Level3Holy (or whatever...just know I mean an offensive spell) to kill them". My team is made to use Holy, but any other spell will work.

"It doesn't matter how much my wizards raise at. When they reraise, it is their turn. Therefore it is not your knights that will get to go. You said that your knights have high faith, but you are protected against only 2-3 status effects. In one turn, I will be able to destroy your entire party using Frog/Petrify/Sleep/Stop, or whichever. "

I am interested in knowing how you will do this, considering you told me you will not be calculating spells.

"By the way, I have no incentive to get close to you. Because you can't afford to wait and let my high faith wizards that died to reraise, as they will crush your knights in one turn. That means I can just wait while your knights get near, upon which time I can choose whatever katana is needed. "

You cannot crush my Knights in one turn. I only need to let one hang back to Raise them. It's not a difficult strategy to muster. Katanas do not have that kind of attack range.

"It would be difficult to reach the low faith wizards. You forget that in the beginning, you get to position your units. Thus, even if I have one low-faith wizard that can't be reached by melee, you have no way of killing her before the others reraise."

First of all, you are assuming that it will be positioned in such a way that I will not be able to attack it. You changed your party; originally you only had 2 high faith Wizards. Besides, Holy Explosion has a pretty decent attack range.

"You are speaking as if my wizards won't get a turn. That is totally false, and distortion of facts. Once a wizard resurrects, it's her turn. Thus, they will get to cast whatever spell is needed, be it L3flare, L3Frog, or whatever. "

Again, I am just going on what you said. And that was that you won't be calculating spells. Again, if you do, you run the risk of hitting your own people.

"CT filling is entirely dependent on speed and related status effects. There is no random chance. Because the base speeds are the same, I know that my wizards will get their turn before your knights get their 2nd turn."

I don't believe this is something I said. Clearly, CT is affected by such status effects as Haste and Slow, etc. I don't belive I ever said CT was random. I never said that you would not get a second turn given that you had 3 low faith Wizards. In fact, I said that if you killed one of my Knights, I would Raise them. Does that not indicate that you would have a turn? Obviously, it does, unless I am one to believe that you can act without regard to when your turn comes up.

By the way, Move MP-Up will ensure that I have a way to restore MP, which will keep MP switch going.
Come to think of it, after reading that really poorly thought out plan you presented, there is absolutely 0 chance your knights can possibly win, with the exception in a scenario where they start right next to my wizards, with each one in a convenient position to land a melee hit right away.

Your are wrong. I am sorry, but Move MP-Up does not fill up 400 MP, and I am willing to bet that you do not even have that many. Thus, it is a simple matter of attacking once with Flare (but I could use a weaker spell, of course) and reducing it to zero.

Although I should simply dismiss your argument about positioning as a blank rant, here goes:

First of all, you changed your party from 2 faith Wizards to 3. Secondly, in order to regain your MP, you have to MOVE. Thus, you would leave your primary Wizard unguarded. If I moved like this:

+ = me
o = you

_______
|ooo
|oo

+

...then I could attack with Lightning Stab and only risk attack from a Kikuijimoji.

It's not a difficult strategy.

[Mwork]

Alright, so I got little careless there. No biggy. There should have been a "normal" in front of physical attack.

Still, Choco Attack is a special attack, as is Jump. Those are attacks that only Chocobos and Lancers can use, making them pretty special.

That test you did though, it's still not a very good one. I never said anything about taking a Chocobo into battle and using it to Sunken State the Dancers. So I see no reason for you to have used a Chocobo to test it out.

So just try using a human unit to Sunken State the other Dancers into invisibility.

[Lans Tartare]

I didn't use chocobos to test. I took a person into battle that happened to get hit by a chocobo. By the way, 'special' attacks, such as Uribo's straight dash, triggers Sunken State, so there is no reason to believe Choco Attack cannot.
I said I will not need to calculate spells. If I get a turn, there is no reason not to. There are 2 wizards capable of it.
Actually, I'd be interested in knowing how your knight would calculate anything while in the shape of a frog, or in a body made of stone. As I said, one L3Frog, L3Petrify will knock all of your knights out of commission. You have absolutely no evade there.
I am not assuming any positioning. It is a fact that you get to position units at the start of a battle. It is also a fact that you can surround at least one unit at any given time with 5.
Even if I hit my own people
1. since my wizards will resurrect at their turn, they will only hit the low faith wizards, doing next to nothing.
2. the second wizard that resurrects will go after the first moves, thus replenishing MP.
3. My party is protected against statuses that will end the fight instantly, or reducing one team's chance of winning to 0. Even if I hit my team with Break, Frog, Stop, Sleep, Paralyze, or whatever, it will have no effect, or is your memory so short that you forgot I put ribbons on them?
As long as I have even 1 MP, any attack will only do MP damage. Therefore it requires at least 1 knight to move.
By the way, I have not changed any numbers. I don't know where to get that from.
I don't need to regain MP if my wizard is only taking 17 damage each turn, as the low faith ones. The low faith wizard surrounding another is the same as a high faith one surrounding one. I have not changed the numbers.
As I said, it is much more reasonable to put a low faith wizard in the middle. There is no need to replenish MP if I I lost 5*16=80 MP, while I have 300-400.
Remember, no matter what kind of attack you choose to use, you must get to me within one turn. That is not possible in most maps. Ignoring that for a moment:
1. Lightning Stab is not a knight ability.
2. You must use more than one, which means you need to get more than one there.
Once again, we are back to positioning, a crucial matter in the game. Your team needs to reach mine to do any damage to the low faith wizards. All I need is a one turn.

[Mwork]

"I took a person into battle that happened to get hit by a chocobo."

That pretty much gives it away that you did use a Chocobo to test it out.



But like I've said so many times before, try taking a human to Sunken State the Dancers into invisibility. It doesn't even have to be a normal attack, either. Some not-normal attacks, like Wave Fist, still trigger the reaction while the Dancers are performing.

[Lans Tartare]

I did not use a chocobo to test it. It just so happens that there were many chocobos in that battle. I did not bring it into battle, nor command that chocobo.

Anyway, I'll drop this argument until I get confirmation from other sources.

[Mwork]

I see. You should have said that before, not just that "happened to get hit by a Chocobo."

But, why wait? Just try it yourself.

Quicker that way.

[Lans Tartare]

Can't. Don't have a controller for the PSX. Existing one has a broken start button, and it will keep pausing and unpausing the game.

[Jay Ayanami]

"I said I will not need to calculate spells. If I get a turn, there is no reason not to. There are 2 wizards capable of it."

That makes no sense. You control the Wizards, don't you? You keep talking about how you will have them do status attack calculations...

"Actually, I'd be interested in knowing how your knight would calculate anything while in the shape of a frog, or in a body made of stone. As I said, one L3Frog, L3Petrify will knock all of your knights out of commission. You have absolutely no evade there."

Smart ass comments again, I see. In accordance, grow up. This is no place for your childish games. I can calculate any spell I like on turn one without fail. You will not get a turn before me.

"I am not assuming any positioning. It is a fact that you get to position units at the start of a battle. It is also a fact that you can surround at least one unit at any given time with 5."

You are assuming you will be against a wall. You are not always against a wall when you begin a game. Yes, you are assuming position.

Your little dissertation is very nice, but it is not really worth replying point by point. Looking at your original team and the one youa re using now, I see a difference in the number of high faith Wizards. On a side note, do not resport to petty insults. If you cannot put this message board into perspective, I hardly think you can analyze the outcome of a game. Your arrogant attitute is disgusting and, like your smart ass comments, has no place here.

"1. Lightning Stab is not a knight ability. "

Did I not specify that Orlandu was on my team? Sorry for that misconception. I would have thought it obvious that Holy Knight is superior to Knight.

It does not matter what you or I say. I still think my team would win. There are too many holes in your argument, too many contengincies that are simply unpredictable. Arguing with you is nearly a lost cause, if only because of your grossly arrogant attitude, which I personally find disgusting.

[Lans Tartare]

You just admitted that I said I will be calculating status attack spells. Those are still calculated spells. Therefore I must not have said I won't be calculating spells.
As I said about the status, your knights will go first. However, if you can't kill all of the wizards that have low faith, which you can't, due to positions, my wizards will get up before your knights get a second turn. Have you forgotten Chantage once again? I only need 1 status spell to disable your knights.
Actually, most maps start you out near a wall. In addition, there are 5 people. There will always be one that can be surrounded by the others. Thus, I am not assuming position. I merely gave exmaples using walls because it's easier to draw.
In addition, in most maps, you can't reach the other players in 1 turn, unless you get very lucky with Teleport.
Actually, if you actually read the post, I did not change the numbers. You, however, obviously are forgetting a lot of details.
By the way, your posted your team as
5 knights, equipped with...

Secondary skill set: Calculator Skills.
Reaction skill set: Counter Attack.
Support skill set: Two swords.
Movement skill set: Move + 3

and...

Right hand: Excalibur.
Left hand: Chaos Blade.
Head: Grand Helmet.
Body: Maximillian.
Acessory: Germinias Boots, Speed Shoes, Magic Glove, or Genji Glove.
First of all, you said 5 knights. Second of all, all of them have Math Skills. Thus, there is no place left for Orlandu.

By the way, your almost total ignorance of facts totally undermines your argument by itself. I am merely pointing out the holes that permiates your argument in almost every paragraph. Your hypocracy is worse than my alleged arrogance, which is probably the only reason you are even arguing, seeing the totally flawed and incompetent plan of attack you are using.

[Jay Ayanami]

Despite what I posted, I would have thought it was obvious whe I started talking about Orlandu what I intended to use him. I could always split the semantic hair and argue that all Holy Knights are Knights, just as all squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares. Therefore, I win either way. Sorry.

And, just for the record, your original team was:

2 female wizards:
97 Brave, 84 Faith

Math Skill
MP Switch
Maintainance
Move-MP Up

3 female wizards:
97 Brave, 3 Faith

Draw Out
MP Switch
Maintainance
Move-MP Up

Wizard Rod
N/A
Ribbon
Chameleon Robe
Chantage

Yet all of a sudden there are 3 high faith Wizards. How does that work?

And aside from the topic at hand, let me further explain your arrogance. You, who knows nothing about me, assumes that I am ignorant and stupid. You think your opinion, your opinion, is better than mine and Mwork's. I must assure, your opinion is no better than anyone else's. You are not better than me, nor I, you. But, unlike you, I never claimed that you were either ignorant nor did I suggest you were stupid. Enough with your assinine comments, please. It is unenjoyable. Remember, this message board is for FUN.

"You just admitted that I said I will be calculating status attack spells. Those are still calculated spells. Therefore I must not have said I won't be calculating spells."

I never denied this. You, on the other hand, said that you would not be calculating spells. Odd, that.

You also assume that your status attack will affect my Knights. If but one survives, I need only to cast Level3Esuna.

Next, yes, most battles do start of next to a wall. "A" is the operative word. Your senario put you against two walls. In any case, there is always Lightning Stab, etc.

An any case, I think we can agree that such battles as "Mlapan" in the Deep Dungeon do NOT put you against the wall, you ARE indeed assuming that you will be able to surround one character. Remember, not all positioning grids have a dimension of 3 by whatever, which would be necessary for you to have if there was no wall.

In regards to that, I will cite the following: "If those are 3 faiths ones, it would be impossible to kill them before the others reraise." You said that in the 13th post on page 3. The context was "Tell me, how would the knights reach the wizards surrounded by the other wizards?" Now, I would only need to reach the ones with LOW faith, right? Because I could not kill them with calculated spells. You suggest that the 3 surrounding are the dead high faith Wizards. But you only said you had 2 originally. Therefore, I shall redirect the following statement to you:

"You, however, obviously are forgetting a lot of details."

Perhaps you are the incompetent one? And you claim to be so virtuous.

[Lans Tartare]

First of all, Orlandu isn't a Holy Knight. He's a Holy Swordsman. Not all Swordsmen are knights, and not all knights are swordsman. If you go by the game definition, the knight and holy knight are two different classes, with different growth and attributes. Therefore they must not be the same thing.
Second of all, you are just saying that I changed my team. I admit that I had 2 in the team I posted. Now, where is it changed?
In response to your "quote" there, which you diced up:
"If those are 3 faiths ones, it would be impossible to kill them before the others reraise."
That was obviously a typo. As we all agreed, the high faith wizards will be dead by the end of knights' turn. The anticident of the word "them" is the word "ones" before the sentence. Thus, it must follow that the word "them" refers to the "ones". However, we have established that the high faith wizards will be dead. It must then follow that the "them" refers to the low faithed ones, which means the "ones" in that sentence refers to the low faithed wizards. if you had any logic, the conclusion should have been that a word "low" was left from in front of the word "faiths." In addition, there was no word "high" there, which means the faith can't simply refer to high faithed ones.
Lets assume the worst case scenario for the moment: I did write 3 high faith wizards in that sentence.
Tell me, how would that affect the outcome? The condition is still that I only need 1 status spell to disable your entire party, or 2 to kill it.
Third of all, my analysis is more complete than both of yours. This can be shown by looking at the number of factors missed. Thus, it must be more reliable.
I'm assuming that my status will hit? Of course it will. You told me that your knights have high faith. I said my wizard will have 84 faith. If you plug in the numbers, the % hit rate is above 90%, if not 100%. I will do an actual calculation if you try to deny that. Therefore it is very safe to assume your knights cannot dodge my status spells.
Go play Mlapan. The enemy team starts in a different section, opposite of yours. Thus, it would be impossible for your team to reach mine in 1 turn. The physical attack point is moot. In most maps, the two parties start in such a configuration that one can't reach the other with melee attacks in one turn. Also, even with the ones where you can reach the party itself in one turn, the characters act as blocks. It wouldn't be possible to reach the other side.
As of now, the only conceivable situation where your knights have a chance to win is in one where your knights are in convenient reach, within 5 blocks away from my wizards, and where none of my wizards are surrounded. Of course, such a configuration doesn't exist in the FFT maps, therefore you can't win.

[Jay Ayanami]

All of Orlandu's abilities are knight abilities...

More later...

[Mwork]

"not all knights are swordsman"

.....That just doesn't sound right.

[Lans Tartare]

All of Orlandu's abilities are knight abilities...
That is only true if you give him Battle Skill, and nothing else. I don't know what you are thinking, but there are no long range Battle Skills.

.....That just doesn't sound right.
Actually, most medieval knights were known more for the lance than the sword. It's much more efficient. For attacking in short range, a lot preferred the mace, as it damages armored foes much more readily, especially with the boosted crushing power of the horse.

Another thing, not all swordsmen are knights.

By the way, Mwork, you seem to be right about the Sunken State one. Attack does activate Sunken State while Singing. I've yet to check dancing, though, but it's safe to assume that it works that way as well.
I concede the Dancer v. Lancer argument to you, nothing else, though.

[Mwork]

I was referring to the Knights in the game. Swords are all they use, except when they use any of the "Equip ----" abilities.

"Not all swordsmen are knights."
No argument there.