5 ninjas could cast almost any powerful attack or status spells and kill you. Just what I think. I will admit I don't know all the exact stats of the game. Feel free to prove me absolutely wrong. But even you admitted ninjas would be quicker than you. And if they all cast status spells, than all your guys would be stopped, stoned or frogged. Just an idea, no one get angry. I could be quite wrong.
Ninjas, I believe, have either a -30% or -40% MA difference from Squires. What that translates into is that their MA is around 6-7. That's not really good for hitting status spells.
i see
But if all 5 cast it wouldn't at least one get a good one off?
Knights are a good class in that they give some lasting power the characters. Their high hp and defense make them one of the harder classes to kill. Lancers too share this trait. As far as that goes, it comes down to whether you like spears or swords, and that's a personal choice. I do believe knights have one of the less used secondary skills, break. I don't think it's bad in its own right, but in the situations where break would be a good option, wouldn't you think steal is even better? Maybe that's just me. IMHO what puts the knights above their other well armored cousins, is that they have no MA penalties. My favorite skill set is Math, and it's nice being able to have a near perfect magic user who can survive an attack. Theoretically, they can use the strongest weapon in the game, the Chaos blade, though I have yet to find it. Same with Maxmillian armor. Oh, and I should mention, there's only one legitimate Excalibur in the game, from Orlandu. I forgot who said there were many. So basically, they're great because they have no MA penalties, great AT, and the hit points to live. Early in the game before your characters are walking death machines, simply surviving is a victory in itself.
Knock yourselves down.
*sighs*
"Do us a favor, Jay, and don't defend the knights. You make them look worse than they actually are. I'm currently addressing the team you used on the first page."
Sorry, but here goes...
"If you updated it, I didn't look for it. I just replied to the first. "
I didn't.
"That team is so bad, and 1 wizard can destroy it."
That remains to be seen.
"Even if you choose Sprint Shoes, this wizard will go before them. Since you have no evasion whatsoever, all that's needed is 1 spell to knock your entire team out. Just do L3Stop, whichever is preferred, and you can't do anything. I forgot whether knights and wizards have 10 or 11 base speed, but in the former case, the knights will have CT 91 on the first turn, and 92 in the latter case. In the latter, the wizard will have to use Stop then Flare, but in the former, she can simply use Petrify and get it over with."
First of all, faith has been, in my experience, more of a determining factor in whether or not a status spell hits. Only 2 of my 5 units were trained as magic users. The other ones are Orlandu and 2 trained as physical attackers. Therefore, there is no conclusive way to say that a spell such as Stop would hit.
Knights and Wizards both have a base speed of 8, by the way, which is way off what you were thinking.
"Using only 1 class, especially with only 1 setup pattern, is the epitome of stupidity. You've exhibited that quite well, and boasted about it?"
Whether you call me stupid or not makes no difference to me. Having all of the same class has served me well and it streamlines my team. Though my actual team does use a Summoner (useful for beating the game), I found it easier to just have 5 Knights. And I do believe that the 5 Knights could beat any team mentioned thus far.
Stupidity is not defending a team you believe in. Stupidity is calling someone else stupid when you don't even know them. You might also call someone who puts a question mark at the end of a declarative sentence stupid, but I would not know.
P. S. And don't bother calling it a rhetorical question, because it was not. Since when is a question mark used solely for inflection?
P. P. S. Another thing that hit me after I had posted this was that your thesis which stated on Wizard could kill my team does not even work by your own logic. Since when can a Wizard use Level 3 Stop AND Level 3 Flare in one turn? Oh yeah, it can't.
So quick to point the finger of stupidity at others when you yourself provide for a much finer example. "Ful wys is he that kan hymselven knowe", my friend.
How about the ninjas???
If they were trained as wizards why couldn't they status all your guys before you got a turn?
Hello?
Just because they are trained does not mean there is a 100% chance of hitting. Simple as that.
I hope the hello wasn't sarcasm
Of course not 100%, but they could all hit and then my team would win. I was only trying to get you to admit that your team could lose, a fair amount of the time, say 50%. I won't argue what class is best because I think every class has an advanateg and you can only debate class if you debate straight class without benefit of any other.
Of course, it's a wizard. At a 84 Faith, it'll have a 80% of higher chance of hitting, usually. Since you've talked as each Knight doing a great amount of damage with Holy, it's only natural to assume that you either had a naturally mid-high faith unit (60-70 faith), or had artificially raised it. It's also reflected in your replies to Lans Tartare. You seem to go along with your spells hitting with high % chance.Only 2 of my 5 units were trained as magic users. The other ones are Orlandu and 2 trained as physical attackers. Therefore, there is no conclusive way to say that a spell such as Stop would hit.
At L99? I don't know what kind of game you played. It's either 10 or 11. Actually, now that I think about it, 9 might also be a possibility.Knights and Wizards both have a base speed of 8, by the way, which is way off what you were thinking.
*Laughs at your overwhelming confidence and stupidity.*And I do believe that the 5 Knights could beat any team mentioned thus far.
Since you have no physical evasion nor magical evasion, any team that consists of precise, physical attack, and low faith, can decimate it. I merely used the wizard as an example of how badly your team is formed.
Since when can your knights move with the status "Stop" on them? The wizard is going to get 3-4 turns before the status wears off the knight.Since when can a Wizard use Level 3 Stop AND Level 3 Flare in one turn
Since I elected only to use 1 unit that time, you've shown really nothing about whether your team is actually good. This time, I will show you a team of 5, from 1 class, that's going to demonlish yours.
Wizard
97 Brave 84 Faith
Math Skill
MP Switch
Magic Attack Up
Move-MP Up
Wizard Rod
N/A
Thief Hat
Wizard Robe
Sentiemson
Wizard x2
97 Brave 3 Faith
Draw Out
Hamedo
Two Swords
Teleport
Wizard Rod
Wizard Rod
Flash Hat
Wizard Robe
Chantage
Wizard x2
97 Brave 3 Faith
Talk Skill
Hamedo
Two Swords
Teleport
Wizard Rod
Wizard Rod
Flash Hat
Wizard Robe
Chantage
First thing to do is lower the Faith of the ones with 3 to 0. Now you have no chance of landing any spells on them. Second is raising their Brave to 100. Good luck landing a physical hit now. The especially good thing? I can invite your units with fairly good success, due to the 28 MA that the 2 wizards with Talk Skill have. Range attack is not an option, and melee attack isn't either.
For one thing, my high faith wizard can just get her turn, then cast L3Flare, which would do next to nothing to my wizards, if it even hits. It will, however, demolish your knights. Second option is casting L3Don't Act, which is going to hit your knights with much higher accuracy than it will for my wizards.
By the way, I make no claim to this team's invincibility. In fact, a group of gunners or archers with battle skill can defeat it fairly easily.
You talk as if you've just proven some sort of superiority for your knights. In fact, that's not true at all. You've not even proven, with any convincing evidence, that you can beat my 1 Wizard. Perhaps the reason is so that you have room to lie? One moment, the spells won't hit because you'll have 3 faith, and the next, your spells will hit with 100% efficiency because your knights have 84 faith? Lay down your stats.
By the way, Wizards don't have any higher MA growth than the other classes. Only Mimes have higher MA growth, out of the normal ones, of course. Leo, your ninjas will probably successfully hit 3-5 times. However, the chances that they'll cover all of the enemy units is not high at all. I believe those odds are over 1000 to 1.
By the way Jay, you have no talent as a commander either. If you did proceed to command the battle against the previous 5 wizard team (not mine) the way you described, you would lose very badly. Notti's strategy is what salvaged your team.
cool
So if my first three hit I could kill the rest of the knights with magic. I would not win every time, but I Think I would win at least 50% of the time.
And despite it all...
"Of course, it's a wizard. At a 84 Faith, it'll have a 80% of higher chance of hitting, usually. Since you've talked as each Knight doing a great amount of damage with Holy, it's only natural to assume that you either had a naturally mid-high faith unit (60-70 faith), or had artificially raised it."
That is incorrect. Firstly, I stated that my Knights worst at magic only did about 150 points of damage. With the force of my whole team that makes for 150+150+250+250+250=950. Which is more damage than you would ever need to do against a regular unit. Magic damage is more dependent on magic attack power, in my experience. And I allowed myself access to a Gengi Glove or Magic Glove, both of which would aid in that, without the use of high faith.
"It's also reflected in your replies to Lans Tartare. You seem to go along with your spells hitting with high % chance."
No, you misinterpreted what I said. I said that since there is a possibility, you cannot rule it out, even if it is a small possibility.
"At L99? I don't know what kind of game you played. It's either 10 or 11. Actually, now that I think about it, 9 might also be a possibility."
"*Laughs at your overwhelming confidence and stupidity.*"
Anyone with half a brain will tell you that you can learn little to nothing about a person from what they say online. To be so arrogant so as to assume you can qualify me as stupid from what you acrue from my posts is ignorant and far more stupid than you may think I am.
"Since you have no physical evasion nor magical evasion, any team that consists of precise, physical attack, and low faith, can decimate it. I merely used the wizard as an example of how badly your team is formed. "
As I said before, it is impossible to say whether or not such a status attack would hit or not. Status attacks are iffy at best.
"Since when can your knights move with the status "Stop" on them? The wizard is going to get 3-4 turns before the status wears off the knight."
ASSUMING your Wizard hit EVERY SINGLE Knight. And a wise man once said that assumption is the mother of all smurf-ups.
"Since I elected only to use 1 unit that time, you've shown really nothing about whether your team is actually good. This time, I will show you a team of 5, from 1 class, that's going to demonlish yours."
Personally, I would think that this should allow for further editing on my team, but it does not matter. You could never say that there is a 100% possiblity or even a good possibility that Level 3 Stop would definitely hit.
"Wizard
97 Brave 84 Faith
Math Skill
MP Switch
Magic Attack Up
Move-MP Up
Wizard Rod
N/A
Thief Hat
Wizard Robe
Sentiemson
Wizard x2
97 Brave 3 Faith
Draw Out
Hamedo
Two Swords
Teleport
Wizard Rod
Wizard Rod
Flash Hat
Wizard Robe
Chantage
Wizard x2
97 Brave 3 Faith
Talk Skill
Hamedo
Two Swords
Teleport
Wizard Rod
Wizard Rod
Flash Hat
Wizard Robe
Chantage
First thing to do is lower the Faith of the ones with 3 to 0. Now you have no chance of landing any spells on them. Second is raising their Brave to 100. Good luck landing a physical hit now. The especially good thing? I can invite your units with fairly good success, due to the 28 MA that the 2 wizards with Talk Skill have. Range attack is not an option, and melee attack isn't either.
For one thing, my high faith wizard can just get her turn, then cast L3Flare, which would do next to nothing to my wizards, if it even hits. It will, however, demolish your knights. Second option is casting L3Don't Act, which is going to hit your knights with much higher accuracy than it will for my wizards."
First of all, Flare is not too powerful an attack, but I can see that this is one of your few options. One Flare attack will not kill my units. Sorry. Range is an option because you cannot invite someone too far away. You've only proven that if a calculated status spell hits every one of my characters, you could win. And more often than not, calculated spells do NOT hit every unit.
"You talk as if you've just proven some sort of superiority for your knights. In fact, that's not true at all. You've not even proven, with any convincing evidence, that you can beat my 1 Wizard. Perhaps the reason is so that you have room to lie?"
I have never once lied in this debate. To suggest otherwise is a poor style of debate and unworthy of my time, or anyone else's.
"One moment, the spells won't hit because you'll have 3 faith, and the next, your spells will hit with 100% efficiency because your knights have 84 faith? Lay down your stats."
Knights still have theirs break abilities to rely on, but more importantly, there is Orlandu, who can attack with great effeciency at a distance. I could include Agrias - she is a Knight, too - but I think the discussion can rest at that.
"By the way, Wizards don't have any higher MA growth than the other classes. Only Mimes have higher MA growth, out of the normal ones, of course. Leo, your ninjas will probably successfully hit 3-5 times. However, the chances that they'll cover all of the enemy units is not high at all. I believe those odds are over 1000 to 1."
I never suggested this, so perhaps you should have addressed Leo before you ran your mouth...
"By the way Jay, you have no talent as a commander either. If you did proceed to command the battle against the previous 5 wizard team (not mine) the way you described, you would lose very badly. Notti's strategy is what salvaged your team."
One moment you criticize me for using all Knights, then you turn around and make a team of all Wizards. Don't be a hypocrite. It is disgusting to be so openly flaunting this double standard. As Mwork will testify, Notti's strategy was my own. Forgive me if I do not feel like posting every day. I have justification, persons such as yourself being at the top of the list.
... I uploaded the post that I linked to awhile back, Jay. Check the FFT folder:
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/Lune_Dragoon/
Last edited by Notti; 02-06-2002 at 01:18 AM.
Notti...
I was not debating whether or not it was your own strategy; clearly, it is. However, I in the meantime had also thought of it, and mentioned that I had to Mwork.
That's about 49 short of what a normal Tiamat of that level would have. It also doesn't take into account the fact that you can't always target everybody in a fight.With the force of my whole team that makes for 150+150+250+250+250=950. Which is more damage than you would ever need to do against a regular unit.
What is the possibility? You rely on "possibility," but then talk as if the other team has no chance of winning. You are not only wrong, but also hypocritical. Tell me your faith, and I'll tell you exact what is this "possibility," if any at all.I said that since there is a possibility, you cannot rule it out, even if it is a small possibility.
Yet another example of your overwhelming stupidity, or is it one that shows your lack of attention span? You just said you can learn nothing about a person from what he/she says online, then you proceed to say because of what I said online, I'm ignorant. Either you are practicing to be a hypocrite, you forgot what you just said, or you don't have half a brain.Anyone with half a brain will tell you that you can learn little to nothing about a person from what they say online. To be so arrogant so as to assume you can qualify me as stupid from what you acrue from my posts is ignorant and far more stupid than you may think I am.
Lets see.As I said before, it is impossible to say whether or not such a status attack would hit or not. Status attacks are iffy at best.
0.84*x/100*(25+110)*4/3=1.512x, where X is your faith. That's not particularly low. Of course, you refuse to say your MA.
Again, hyporcrisy. Your entire argument, and anything said in support of or against your team, have been based on assumptions. Every analysis until now, and after, have been based on assumptions. If you are going to argue assumptions get one nowhere, then it's impossible for you to say your team can't lose.And a wise man once said that assumption is the mother of all smurf-ups.
Go ahead and edit it. I don't see how this justify your editing, unless you want to say that a 1 wizard team is comparable to yours.Personally, I would think that this should allow for further editing on my team, but it does not matter.
Flare has a base damage of 46, and Holy has a base damage of 50. Interesting. That means there is around 100 difference between the damage Flare does and the damage Holy does. 46*25*0.84*x*4/3=12.99x, where X is your faith, which you refuse to say. Now I wonder why this is so.First of all, Flare is not too powerful an attack, but I can see that this is one of your few options.
Interesting you should mention range, because Invite has a much better range than melee attacks. Your magic isn't going to do anything to 4 of my units. I can make their faith 0 before you can land a Pray Faith on them. Unless, of course, you ignored my 4 low faith wizards out of convenience, in which case you might be able to use magic.Sorry. Range is an option because you cannot invite someone too far away.
Those are not knights, nor are they even normal classes. In any case, Orlandu isn't even a knight. If you change their default class, you are not going to have 5 casts of magic.Orlandu, who can attack with great effeciency at a distance. I could include Agrias - she is a Knight, too
Go ahead. Put Hamedo on, oh, say, Orlandu. Raise his brave ot 100. Then, try to break something of his. See for yourself what's going to happen. I'll tell you right now the breaker is going to get cut down.Knights still have theirs break abilities to rely on
There is an old Chinese proverb: he who is a thief calls others thief first. I think this applies to you very well. I'm merely showing how badly made your team was.Don't be a hypocrite. It is disgusting to be so openly flaunting this double standard.
La lala la la...
"That's about 49 short of what a normal Tiamat of that level would have."
I suppose you will just change all your character's job classes to Taimat now? Oh wait, Taimat is not a regular job unit is it? That's right, it's a monster class.
Besides, my people do 999+ on most occassions; I give 950 as a low so as a) not to make a mistake b) not to get called out of it does not do more than 950 which has happened before c) make people shut up and not bother to argue the point. 950 is more than your wizards have; it is more than any regular unit will have.
"What is the possibility? You rely on "possibility," but then talk as if the other team has no chance of winning. You are not only wrong, but also hypocritical."
That is not hypocritical. Get a grasp on your vocabulary. You state that Stop WILL hit. By saying that it might not, I am being LOGICAL and more correct. You cannot counter that statement by calling me hypocritical. It is the logical counterpoint. It is not that hard. I could revise my team, as everyone has done so thus far, but I am confident that my team as I originally stated it would have a better than fair chance against the Wizard team.
"Tell me your faith, and I'll tell you exact what is this "possibility," if any at all."
I assume my faith was whatever it began as; I did not tamper with it at all during beating the game. I would check, but my saves were (of course) erased by my computer when I went to e-mail my saves to someone I know online who wanted to see my team. I would imagine, however, that I will be replaying the game during December, at which point, I will be happy to tell you what my faith is, exactly.
"Yet another example of your overwhelming stupidity, or is it one that shows your lack of attention span? You just said you can learn nothing about a person from what he/she says online, then you proceed to say because of what I said online, I'm ignorant. Either you are practicing to be a hypocrite, you forgot what you just said, or you don't have half a brain."
It's called reading, my friend. I did not call YOU stupid, but I called a behavior stupid. That is NOT the same thing. You may learn something about someone online; I don't rule out that possibility. But more often than not, a person is not who they seem from a few posts on a message board, a few messages over ICQ. I wish I did not have to clarify this to you. It is not a difficult concept. If I was so arrogant to assume that I could know anything about you from your posts here, I would guess you are A) bigoted B) a moron C) stubborn D) militant E) immature, and well...I don't think I need to continue on. But I am sure you would agree that you do, in fact, seem that way. On the other hand, I do not think you would consider yourself to be all those things. And perhaps if you did not throw yourself at my posts, then I would not have to defend myself in such a way.
"0.84*x/100*(25+110)*4/3=1.512x, where X is your faith. That's not particularly low. Of course, you refuse to say your MA. "
All I know is that my summoner's MA is 26 (and I am not even sure about that, either). I don't pay attention to such stats with other units. I am not a stat person. I see what works, and I go with it. There is no need to perform complex calculations when you already know the outcome.
"Again, hyporcrisy. Your entire argument, and anything said in support of or against your team, have been based on assumptions. Every analysis until now, and after, have been based on assumptions. If you are going to argue assumptions get one nowhere, then it's impossible for you to say your team can't lose."
I do not assume that the attack would absolutely not hit. Do not twist my words around. I said that I would really not be surprised if one did not. Every analysis based on assumptions? Please. Did you even read this thread? I said there is not possible way for you to conclude your team would win. I don't know why you would bother saying "impossible for you to say your team can't lose"; I never stated the contrary.
"Flare has a base damage of 46, and Holy has a base damage of 50. Interesting. That means there is around 100 difference between the damage Flare does and the damage Holy does. 46*25*0.84*x*4/3=12.99x, where X is your faith, which you refuse to say. Now I wonder why this is so."
Holy is not too pwerful, either. Perhaps you are assuming too much. I would consider a two "sworded" Monk doing 999+ damage to be a lot of damage. However, the way in which you deal damage with calculated Holy spells is far more useful than Monks with two-hands. See above for my faith calculations.
"Interesting you should mention range, because Invite has a much better range than melee attacks."
*cough* Orlandu... *cough*
"Your magic isn't going to do anything to 4 of my units. I can make their faith 0 before you can land a Pray Faith on them. Unless, of course, you ignored my 4 low faith wizards out of convenience, in which case you might be able to use magic."
How could I ignore them; your strategy depends on them. I think I reference Orlandu in the post above. Perhaps I did not though... Holy Explosion has a nice range, and it is bigger than the Mediator skills reach. Of course, Orlandu is the best character in the game, but either way...
"Those are not knights, nor are they even normal classes. In any case, Orlandu isn't even a knight. If you change their default class, you are not going to have 5 casts of magic."
I had already clarified that Orlandu IS on my team. Orlandu has Knight skills, *I* consider him a Knight, and that is what counts, because it is my team. It is what was originally intended. You may disagree with my relation of this to you, a valid point now (I should have typed out 5 separate units so that all would understand; however, at the time I was not in error; retrospect is always 20/20), but it does not matter. Remind me why, again, someone would want a generic character over Orlandu?
"Go ahead. Put Hamedo on, oh, say, Orlandu. Raise his brave ot 100. Then, try to break something of his. See for yourself what's going to happen. I'll tell you right now the breaker is going to get cut down. "
I don't really use Hamedo...it's not too horribly valuable. I shall if you like though.
"There is an old Chinese proverb: he who is a thief calls others thief first. I think this applies to you very well."
Living the life of a second-hander, I see. While I think citation of quotes is valuable, I don't see the point of this one, especially in this day and age. To make a point: he who is a law enforcer calls the other a thief first (I realize it loses it rhetorical value here, though). I called you a hypocrite here, and you are. I don't know if you flipped it around on me because your skewed perception makes you really think that I am, or if you wanted to bend the situation around that quote. In any case, I never said resolutely that it would not happen. People with a 99% chance of hitting miss all the time in FFT. People with a 7% chance of stealing steal all the time.
" I'm merely showing how badly made your team was."
You have really deluded yourself that much. You pick someone out of the crowd whom you happen to disagree with, and before you even know them, you proceed straight to personal attacks. Learn some maturity, man. No one worth impressing will listen to this sort of crap. And no, I am not worth being impressed by you; after all, I am just a random person you met online. Try to put thing is perspectivel don't fool yourself.
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