FFXII: Vindicated by history?

[Fynn]

It doesn't work that way. Some things may bother you to the point something becomes unenjoyable. I fully understand Skyblade in this, despite fully disagreeing with him about XII. Put me in the X forum, and you get a similar result

[Skyblade]

Wow you post a lot about things you dislike. When I dislike something I may mention something but then I move on. You should pep up! less hate, more love.

Well, Tactics is a unique case, because I really do keep trying to like it. So every six months or so, I give the game a try, and I just come on here to vent about all the awful things about it when I do.

XII was just boring. Uninteresting combat, uninteresting world exploration, uninteresting story, and several uninteresting characters. It was always a chore to push through from one section to the next, the plot never held my interest, the grinding was absolutely ridiculous, and I just gave up eventually.

I only posted here because I felt like the thread title was somehow suggesting that the ire directed towards this game wasn't earned, which is completely untrue.

[Depression Moon]

I liked the game a lot when it first came out and I'm not sure if I should still express an opinion since I haven't played it since at least 2008. The character development and pacing I felt were poor and the music was forgettable, but the battle system made up well for that. I was addicted to it in this game. The game also provided some challenge that you don't really get out of the modern FF games. I still remember the basement level of The Pharos. I couldn't survive more than three minutes down there even with every buff on my party members. I put in over 300 hours of that game, so it was fun for me despite its flaws.

[Wolf Kanno]

I largely feel its been vindicated, I don't see nearly as much hate as it got back when it first released and lately, like this thread for instance, I'm seeing more people look back and say "You know, it was actually pretty good". While I can agree with Skyblade about some of the gameplay issues, I don't feel they ruined the game as badly as he feels they do but I will disagree with the story of XII. Though I feel it's story has problems, I do feel its one of the better entries in the series and probably the last well written game to sport the Final Fantasy title in its name now that I think about it.

Regardless, I feel that XII has largely ended its hazing period and fans think more positively about it than they did in 2006. It will be interesting to see if XIII will get the same treatment. I guess that largely depends on how the JRPG genre is faring in the next couple of years.

[Skyblade]

Let me take a moment and talk about some of the game's good points, because it does have a lot.

I like almost all of the main characters. With the exception of Vaan, I like nearly everyone. I also think that most of them were well integrated into the story, with the exceptions of Vaan (again) and Fran. Fran serves as mostly a plot device and exposition dump, unfortunately. But you really don't care, because her voice acting is excellent and her relationship with Balthier is just brilliant.

I really like the designs in this game. Enemies, characters, landscapes... They're all excellent. Ok, so Basch's potholder annoys me a little, but that really is a very minor thing. This game looks stunning.

I love the Judge design. Yes, it's another design point, but it bears mentioning. Everyone loves the Judges, they're awesome. I wish they had more involvement with the story and more fleshing out of their personalities. I also feel that the political story basis would have been a lot stronger had the Judges been the real foe instead of Vayne. Partially because Vayne had no depth to him, and partially because he was all alone. There was no real conflict or drama with Vayne, he was just the villain, and you were there to stop him. One of the few strong story moments was when the Dawn Shard was claimed and experimented on, in an attempt by one of the Judges (can't recall his name) to use its power to overthrow Vayne and take control of the Empire. That was awesome. That's how a political story needs to be done, you need multiple power blocks clashing with each other and creating tension and action, with the scale of nations in the balance.

I like the weapon variety. I hate the incredibly broken weapon progression, but I love the number of different types and how differently they all feel. I wish there was a little bit more balance, as I do feel (and I think most will agree) that there are a few "best" weapon types, but I still do love the options it gives you.

I like the sidequests, and I like the plot heavy hunts. I wish there were more hunts which had stories and cutscenes involved, because those were really fun. And the actual sidequests, like helping the Viera fighter join Clan Centurio, were awesome (though unfortunately massively overshadowed by the mark hunting).


That said, the good points aren't enough to vindicate it. It still deserves all the hate it gets, and it still is a broken and boring mess to play through. People may not hate on it that much, because it's no longer the new bad game (criticism dropped off when everyone went to complain about XIII, it's not exactly anything "new"), but most people still think it had a ton of negative points, and aren't nearly as likely to pick it up and replay it as they are the franchise classics.

[Elpizo]

It still deserves all the hate it gets.

No it doesn't, and that's all that needs to be said on the matter.

[Skyblade]

It still deserves all the hate it gets.

No it doesn't, and that's all that needs to be said on the matter.

It still deserves a lot of the criticism that is hurled against it, as a great deal of it is valid. How much its flaws detract from the game is of course a question of personal preference.

[maybee]

Let me take a moment and talk about some of the game's good points, because it does have a lot.

I like almost all of the main characters. With the exception of Vaan, I like nearly everyone. I also think that most of them were well integrated into the story, with the exceptions of Vaan (again) and Fran. Fran serves as mostly a plot device and exposition dump, unfortunately. But you really don't care, because her voice acting is excellent and her relationship with Balthier is just brilliant.

I really like the designs in this game. Enemies, characters, landscapes... They're all excellent. Ok, so Basch's potholder annoys me a little, but that really is a very minor thing. This game looks stunning.

I love the Judge design. Yes, it's another design point, but it bears mentioning. Everyone loves the Judges, they're awesome. I wish they had more involvement with the story and more fleshing out of their personalities. I also feel that the political story basis would have been a lot stronger had the Judges been the real foe instead of Vayne. Partially because Vayne had no depth to him, and partially because he was all alone. There was no real conflict or drama with Vayne, he was just the villain, and you were there to stop him. One of the few strong story moments was when the Dawn Shard was claimed and experimented on, in an attempt by one of the Judges (can't recall his name) to use its power to overthrow Vayne and take control of the Empire. That was awesome. That's how a political story needs to be done, you need multiple power blocks clashing with each other and creating tension and action, with the scale of nations in the balance.

I like the weapon variety. I hate the incredibly broken weapon progression, but I love the number of different types and how differently they all feel. I wish there was a little bit more balance, as I do feel (and I think most will agree) that there are a few "best" weapon types, but I still do love the options it gives you.

I like the sidequests, and I like the plot heavy hunts. I wish there were more hunts which had stories and cutscenes involved, because those were really fun. And the actual sidequests, like helping the Viera fighter join Clan Centurio, were awesome (though unfortunately massively overshadowed by the mark hunting).

You seem to like XII alot more than I do

people may not hate on it that much, because it's no longer the new bad game (criticism dropped off when everyone went to complain about XIII

Yeah I do think that the Final Fantasy XIII games helped Final Fantasy XII and helped the game appear more attractive and more enjoyable.

I would still prefer to play XIII-2 over XII anyday though.


And yes


and Tactics

[Bolivar]

Wow you post a lot about things you dislike.

He's turning into Vivi22!

Also, you probably shouldn't talk about poorly implemented game design if you're going to mention how much you like FFTA shortly afterwards!

[Skyblade]

Wow you post a lot about things you dislike.

He's turning into Vivi22!

Also, you probably shouldn't talk about poorly implemented game design if you're going to mention how much you like FFTA shortly afterwards!

At least FFTA had consistent mechanics.

But that's off topic, and I think I've talked as much about XII that I care to.

[Slothy]

Wow you post a lot about things you dislike.

He's turning into Vivi22!

Hey now, I post about all kinds of things I like. Feel free to chat with me about Just Cause 2, Vanquish, Persona 3, Tales of Symphonia, Any FF which is greater than, and divisible by, 3, The odd numbered MGS titles, Demons and Dark Souls, Soul Calibur, Street Fighter, Mega Man, any Mario game released before 1997, and a hundred other things that aren't FFX or XIII sometime.

It just happens to be that a lot of people who make gaming threads consistently have awful taste.

[Bolivar]

Wow you post a lot about things you dislike.

He's turning into Vivi22!

Hey now, I post about all kinds of things I like. Feel free to chat with me about Just Cause 2, Vanquish, Persona 3, Tales of Symphonia, Any FF which is greater than, and divisible by, 3, The odd numbered MGS titles, Demons and Dark Souls, Soul Calibur, Street Fighter, Mega Man, any Mario game released before 1997, and a hundred other things that aren't FFX or XIII sometime.

It just happens to be that a lot of people who make gaming threads consistently have awful taste.

Wouldn't have it any other way!

[CimminyCricket]

I didn't like the game for anything more than just the voice overs, but when I finally did get around to trying to beat the game I loved it. There's definitely a lot of challenges to be had in this game. I haven't been able to beat any of the post game bosses, but one day I will. :c)

The political theme behind it was spectacular.

[Loony BoB]

Of all the Final Fantasy games that I have mixed feelings over, I liked this one the most. I liked the characters although I don't feel they did enough with them. I liked the fantastic world, but I never really found myself actually caring about the story, or even feeling that it mattered if I cared or not.

I feel this story - and the characters - had a lack of emotion to it. I'm not talking about love. I could feel that the characters were experiencing emotion, but I felt that they all were excellent at bottling it up completely. Their faces never changed, there were few smiles throughout. I felt the music was great, but again, I don't feel it ever lended itself to the story - just to the environments (further pushing that emphasis on more world, less story thing).

It was also a very political story at times and that kind of thing bores me. I get that other people like it, though.

The battle system was alright. I had no qualms with that. I liked fighting in the game well enough.

I adored the reward for exploration, I adored the various races, although I feel they didn't play into the races as much as they could have - ie all major characters were human apart from Fran, and it really irks me that I have only just noticed that.

I think for me this was like watching a good story that drags on just a little, but it still worth watching. It isn't emotional, but it is intelligent. There is a place for games like that, definitely. It just didn't wow me like many other games, though, because there were few moments where I felt wowed. It felt very serious, and I feel it needed a bit mroe... well, drama, in the theatrical sense.

[maybee]

TV Tropes believes that this game is vindicated by history in the 'your mileage might vary'



I really believe that they have it right. Whether this game is vindicated by history is up to you, and what you have experienced on the internet, and whom you hang out with online and offline.