A Song of Ice and Fire (book discussion - spoilers inside)

[Shorty]

I would say that my most grievious problem is the way the he conveys internal dialogue, especially when it comes to women like Cersei ad Catelyn, and he's an offender with Jaime as well. Their internal dialogue is just atrocious. The quips and snark and comments the characters want to make but hold back. I greatly detest Cersei and Catelyn, so I can appreciate this just being a piece of their character, but he also does it with Jaime, and with others I can't think of right now, I'm sure. Daenerys, and Aerys Oakhart, as of recent. Sam as well.

Note that I don't have any problems with what he writes about so much as how he writes it. Listen, I have no qualms with the blatant, rampant sexism strewn about these books. No problems with it whatsoever. I don't even tolerate it or dislike it; it's part of their world, and as a reader, I accept that. But the way he writes women - completely irrational with so few of them capable of intelligent thought, leaves me no room to relate to any of them. One could make the argument that he's aware of this and even tried to combat this with the strong female characters of Dorne, but so far, even Dorne has fallen short for me. It doesn't come down to sexism. GRRM just does not know how to write women in a way for other women to relate to them*. (*In my own personal opinion as a female reader.)

Another problem is that his writing doesn't jump out at me as overwhelming and profound works of art. That's okay, because they do't have to be. I'm in it for the story and the journey. There are here and there some clever and noteworthy lines, and I'm not expecting to read a literary masterpiece upon every page. Mostly what keeps me going is, as mentioned, what is happening to his characters, not necessarily his own writing. I wish that I did feel like all of these books I invest in were profound works of art, writing-wise, but it's not how I feel. Still, it's done well enough for me to kick that complaint under the carpet and keep going.

Another complaint, albeit minor, is that I cringe whenever he uses the word "loped" when referring to movement of the direwolves. It's such an uncommon word, but it's used so often when referring to them and I hate it.

I've had my qualms with GRRM and his writing style (with a few things but particularly with regard to his women - I don't think he writes their POVs very realistically, but hey, they're his characters)

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/Writing_Women

I thought this might come up. I see it differently is as best as I can explain. He can say this all he likes, but I feel that the men as written more as "people", the women feel poorly written shadows of the gender they should reflect, especially in a world in which the two are separated so by their own sexes.

[Ayen]

And besides, if I screw up, one of the women in my life is sure to tell me.

This made me chuckle.

Edit:

I would say that my most grievious problem is the way the he conveys internal dialogue, especially when it comes to women like Cersei ad Catelyn, and he's an offender with Jaime as well. Their internal dialogue is just atrocious. The quips and snark and comments the characters want to make but hold back. I greatly detest Cersei and Catelyn, so I can appreciate this just being a piece of their character, but he also does it with Jaime, and with others I can't think of right now, I'm sure. Daenerys, and Aerys Oakhart, as of recent. Sam as well.

Note that I don't have any problems with what he writes about so much as how he writes it. Listen, I have no qualms with the blatant, rampant sexism strewn about these books. No problems with it whatsoever. I don't even tolerate it or dislike it; it's part of their world, and as a reader, I accept that. But the way he writes women - completely irrational with so few of them capable of intelligent thought, leaves me no room to relate to any of them. One could make the argument that he's aware of this and even tried to combat this with the strong female characters of Dorne, but so far, even Dorne has fallen short for me. It doesn't come down to sexism. GRRM just does not know how to write women in a way for other women to relate to them*. (*In my own personal opinion as a female reader.)

Another problem is that his writing doesn't jump out at me as overwhelming and profound works of art. That's okay, because they do't have to be. I'm in it for the story and the journey. There are here and there some clever and noteworthy lines, and I'm not expecting to read a literary masterpiece upon every page. Mostly what keeps me going is, as mentioned, what is happening to his characters, not necessarily his own writing. I wish that I did feel like all of these books I invest in were profound works of art, writing-wise, but it's not how I feel. Still, it's done well enough for me to kick that complaint under the carpet and keep going.

Another complaint, albeit minor, is that I cringe whenever he uses the word "loped" when referring to movement of the direwolves. It's such an uncommon word, but it's used so often when referring to them and I hate it.

Ohhhh. I see what you mean. Especially about Catelyn and Cersei.

My main deal is that he's vague as all hell. This didn't bother me at first because I'm vague as all hell, but it wasn't until I started writing my fanfic that I realized just how vague everything is. Where am I standing? I don't know. One guy description is summed up as "blue eyes and sharp features". Talk about minor character syndrome.

[Kalevala]

You read A Clash of Kings after having watched season two though, right? I can see how that would alter the experience.

Did you catch the hints in the prologue/epilogue? If you didn't and want to know.The alchemist in the beginning has the exact physical description as the face Jaqen H'ghar took on after leaving Harrenhal. He seemingly kills Pate, and then we see Pate in the epilogue introducing himself using a title he apparently hated. Jaqen is up to some trout.

I did, yes, and WHAT. I did not catch that!

Right?! I didn't realize at first either but one of my friends pointed it out.

[BustaMo]

Bought the books about a month ago for when I'm working 3rd shift and it's quiet. I'm about 260 pages into the 1st book outof the 800 it has. I just got passed the part where Bran has woken back up. I watched the first 2 season on TV first before I started reading, so I like how close the books and the showings are; almost identical.

Can't wait to see how this unfolds. Does each book kind of represent a season on HBO?

[Ayen]

Bought the books about a month ago for when I'm working 3rd shift and it's quiet. I'm about 260 pages into the 1st book outof the 800 it has. I just got passed the part where Bran has woken back up. I watched the first 2 season on TV first before I started reading, so I like how close the books and the showings are; almost identical.

Can't wait to see how this unfolds. Does each book kind of represent a season on HBO?

For the first two books, yes.

Season 1 = Book 1
Season 2 = Book 2
Season 3 = First half of Book 3
Season 4 = Second half of Book 3 and some of Book 4 and Book 5

[BustaMo]

Ok that's good to know. I guess I'm not really afraid of spoiling it one way or another myself. I think it would be more enjoyable if I got through the books first and then watched the shows, but with seeing the shows first, I can put a face to a name and event which makes the imagery a bit more vivid.

I know they are saying Book 6 is in the works, which will be a must-buy as soon as it's released.

[Ayen]

I find myself liking some of the character descriptions in the books more. Like how all of the Starks minus Arya and Jon have red hair and blue eyes.

Granted, I'm not that bothered by the TV version.

[Shorty]

I find myself liking some of the character descriptions in the books more. Like how all of the Starks minus Arya and Jon have red hair and blue eyes.

Granted, I'm not that bothered by the TV version.

I don't think Bran or Rickon have red hair and blue eyes. Or do they?

ADWDTyrion's journey across the Narrow Sea and through Pentos and down the river to the Sorrows is perhaps my favorite part of the series so far, emphasis on the Sorrows, and especially with the discovery of Young Griff's true identity. That was a shock. Loving it.

I like Davos himself, but every single chapter I've ever read of his I just find so bleak and uninteresting. I dread reading them out of fear of boredom.

[The Man]

ADWDI don't know how anyone can find Davos' chapters in ADWD boring.

[Shorty]

ADWDAll through the entire series and so far up to chapter nineteen of ADWD, I think, they've been astoundingly snoreworthy!

[Jinx]

Show Davos > Book Davos

I MEAN WHEN LITTLE SHIREEN TEACHES HIM HOW TO READ

EDIT: I've also decided to take on the Herculean task of re-reading these starting next month.

[Ayen]

I find myself liking some of the character descriptions in the books more. Like how all of the Starks minus Arya and Jon have red hair and blue eyes.

Granted, I'm not that bothered by the TV version.

I don't think Bran or Rickon have red hair and blue eyes. Or do they?

Bran does, Rickon isn't as specific but it still says he favors his mother's side so some artists draw him with red hair and blue eyes. All of the Stark children favor their mother side in appearance sans Arya and Jon.

[Shorty]

In just over a year's time, I have finally finished this godforsaken series. That epilogue, though!

[Ayen]

Did winter come yet?

[Shorty]

As a matter of fact, friend, it has.