Sin and Zanarkand SPOILERS

[Jiro]

Yeah, if the fayth were the only thing keeping Jecht alive, and their purpose was to defeat Sin, then surely stopping their dreaming at any point would've been fine.

A fayth CAN'T choose to stop being summoned. They granted the summoner their power, and ever since then that summoner can call forth their aeon.

Bahamut's fayth asks Tidus to "let them rest, because they were tired of dreaming", remember? This very much implies they cannot simply do it themselves.

So did Dona and Isaaru have to be tracked down before Yevon would smurf off? What about Brother Zuke who was a summoner previously?

[Karifean]

Yeah, if the fayth were the only thing keeping Jecht alive, and their purpose was to defeat Sin, then surely stopping their dreaming at any point would've been fine.

A fayth CAN'T choose to stop being summoned. They granted the summoner their power, and ever since then that summoner can call forth their aeon.

Bahamut's fayth asks Tidus to "let them rest, because they were tired of dreaming", remember? This very much implies they cannot simply do it themselves.

So did Dona and Isaaru have to be tracked down before Yevon would smurf off? What about Brother Zuke who was a summoner previously?

There's a bit of a difference there; Yu Yevon is summoning the aeon perpetually. Any summoner with a mind would dismiss them after their job is done. At that point the fayth is free. Yu Yevon does not do that.

[Tavrobel]

So did Dona and Isaaru have to be tracked down before Yevon would smurf off? What about Brother Zuke who was a summoner previously?

They are not the summoners of DZ. Yevon is the summoner of DZ, and the people who are glowing on Gagazet are the fayth that gives DZ form.

Contrast this with Yuna (or any other standard summoner) who can use Valefor/Bahamut, etc., of whom are the fayth in the temples. Notice even more that you can't summon two copies of the same Aeon at any time (e.g., Remiem Temple challenges or the final sequence).

[Sephiroth]

Contrast this with Yuna (or any other standard summoner) who can use Valefor/Bahamut, etc., of whom are the fayth in the temples. Notice even more that you can't summon two copies of the same Aeon at any time (e.g., Remiem Temple challenges or the final sequence).

To be fair there are moments when you can summon an Aeon that is on the field (Heretic Aeons) but that is more because of ingame missing logic than actual story logic.

[black orb]

The whole Jecht getting to Spira by falling through some temporal vortex out in the ocean while training is a bit bollocks imo but it's a satisfactory enough excuse for how he left, but the idea that Auron could just cruise through riding on Sin's back is a little bit bonkers.

>>> Jecht entered Spira while out practicing in the sea and running upon Sin. The Zanarkand he hailed from, as well as Jecht himself, were but a dream recreation of the original city, created from the memories of its original citizens and maintained by Yu Yevon, the summoner who was Zanarkand's leader. The dream Zanarkand is based on Zanarkand as it existed 1000 years ago in Spira's history, whose ruins have since become the destination of pilgrimages. Unaware of any of this, Jecht was seen as a crazy drunkard and locked up in Bevelle.

Jecht asserts some control and makes his way to Dream Zanarkand where he communicates with the now-unsent Auron and transports him and Tidus to Spira, hoping that Tidus would find a way to destroy Sin for good. (source ffwikia)..

There is no temporal vortex..

Why is Jecht the only one who has ever done that? You'd think explorers would be doing it all the time.

>>> Its possible, if they can survive Sin..

Also, if Jecht was already just a dream of the Fayth then how could he become sin after the pilgrimage he went on?

>>> As Karifean mentioned, There's no problem with a dream of the fayth becoming a fayth themselves.

Also, if Sin is there to protect Dream Zanarkand why the hell does he blow the crap out of it at the start of the game?

>>> The strain of trying to control Sin was beyond Yu Yevon, and the process destroyed his mind, removing any conscious control he may have had on it. Sin thus became a monster that knew only its two instincts, and indiscriminately attacked cities and villages all over Spira, starting with the true Zanarkand itself. (source ffwikia)..

[Ayen]

I always assumed that it was a physical location out in the ocean and lo and behold by this thread it's a physical location out in the ocean.

[Jiro]

It must be pretty smurfing far out to sea if nobody has been able to see it. Wonder why you can't just go there on the airship? I mean, it would simply be ruined Zanarkand 2.0, but if it's straight up there then easy.

Also, why the hell hasn't anyone else from Zanarkand just sailed out of there? If our own history is anything to go by, humanity wants the entire world charted. And if Spirans are anything to go by, they live smurfing everywhere else. So to have a physical location that is entirely unknown to people despite the existence of giant salvage ships and whatnot seems utterly bonkers.

[Karifean]

Well I can think of one good reason why people would have trouble exploring the oceans...

[Tavrobel]

airship?

Also, why the hell hasn't anyone else from Zanarkand just sailed out of there? If our own history is anything to go by, humanity wants the entire world charted. And if Spirans are anything to go by, they live smurfing everywhere else. So to have a physical location that is entirely unknown to people despite the existence of giant salvage ships and whatnot seems utterly bonkers.

You mean sailed away from DZ? The primary reason would be that Yu Yevon has created people that don't care. They don't need to explore if that desire has been suppressed. If all else fails, we know that Yevon has a hard-reset switch for DZ.

There weren't many airships to begin with. Even the one scrounged up during the story was one-in-a-million, and at the end of FFX-2, there are only two airships, total, and this is after the technological growth (the first one even stopped working). Is it that hard to believe that magical-zombie-Hitler-O-Brien-Stalin-Napoleon-Jesus was able to control a world where he and his daughter were the center of a global religion?

For people coming from mainland Spira, technology and population is continually reset by attacks coming from Sin. Plebs of Yevon (99% of the population) are afraid of technology. The Al Bhed are limited by their resources and by manpower (and that they're second class citizens). You reference our history of exploration, but your impression is incredibly exaggerated.

The number of explorers in Western history is extremely small. The fact explorers existed is only prominent because Europeans love starting fights. It took many of the historical explorers great efforts to get funding from their governments. Exploration was largely fueled by militaristic ambitions i.e., "we require more minerals."

Eastern exploration was largely stopped by executive order. The Chinese ended their own exploration efforts because why explore that which is inferior? If you're at the center of the world, who cares about anyone else? The Japanese and Koreans shared isolationist tendencies.

Native American exploration pre-colonialism was non-existent. Native African exploration was equally non-existent.

[Ayen]

Well I can think of one good reason why people would have trouble exploring the oceans...

Sin just be like, "Bump!" *tears ship in half*

[Goldenboko]

Exploration of Spira's oceans didn't happen because thing like this tended to happen. If I'm a denizen of Spira, I'm probably avoiding the water.

[Jiro]

Exploration outward of Zanarkand wouldn't be affected by that, because they don't know about Sin. The only possible explanation is that they don't care what else is out there, but that still feels weak. And why would Jecht go, if they were all designed to have minimal desire for exploration?

[Tavrobel]

Exploration outward of Zanarkand wouldn't be affected by that, because they don't know about Sin. The only possible explanation is that they don't care what else is out there, but that still feels weak. And why would Jecht go, if they were all designed to have minimal desire for exploration?

Sin was present starting immediately before the end of the war. Sin ended it. It was known.

"There is a legend, you know."
"Just before the horrible Sin appeared..."
"a terrible war raged between Bevelle and Zanarkand."
"When the armies of Bevelle attacked Mount Gagazet, they heard a song echoing across the snowy slopes."
""'Tis a song from an otherworld," they said. The soldiers panicked and ran."
"And then, as if to pursue the retreating armies, Sin appeared!"
"Some time later, scouts from Bevelle braved the mountain."
"On the other side, they witnessed the ruins that had been Zanarkand."
"The city destroyed. Not a single soul left standing. Gone!"
"In its place, a multitude of the fayth had gathered on Gagazet."
"They were singing a song."
"It's the song we now call the "Hymn of the Fayth.""
"And that, as they say, is that."
"Well...maybe not all of it."

"Rumors flew in Bevelle about Sin's sudden appearance."
"They said that the people of Zanarkand became the fayth, that they had called Sin."
"And that the man responsible..."
"was none other than the summoner Yevon, ruler of Zanarkand!"
"Yes, the lord father of Lady Yunalesca."
"On the eve of Zanarkand's destruction, Lady Yunalesca..."
"had fled to safety with her husband, Zaon."
"Later, the two used the Final Summoning to defeat Sin."
"Yet the people of Bevelle still feared Yu Yevon."
"It was to quell his wrath that they revered him, and first spread his teachings."
"And so were born the temples of Yevon."
"I suppose it's possible Yunalesca had planned it that way from the start!"
"A fair trade, she defeats Sin in exchange for her lord father's honor."
"Of course, there's no proof. No, the facts are lost in the mists of time."
"And who'd admit Yevon was an enemy of Bevelle?"
"You can bet the temples had a hand in covering that one up!"
"And that, as they say, is that."

Plenty of survivors.

Jecht didn't do it on purpose. He went out for a swim one day, went too far out, and was caught in the tide. Sin then brought him to the mainland.

Before you ask, I'm not doing a calculation of the tides of Spira and how far he would have had to swim before he could not physically swim back. If you want an answer for that, test it yourself. You can download that app that makes your phone waterproof if you want to let us know how it goes.

"I was in a coffee shop, running away from home when I heard the news."
"Our hero, Jecht, gone, vanished into thin air!"

Yuna
"A man named Jecht told me. He was my father's guardian."

[Tidus looks surprised, then slightly pissed, and turns around, muttering "Jecht" in a low voice several times]

Tidus
"My father...his name is Jecht!"

Yuna
"Amazing!"
[She does the prayer gesture]
"You know, our meeting like this must be the blessing of Yevon!"

Tidus
"Sounds like him, but it can't be him."

Yuna
"Why not?"

Tidus
"My old man, he died. Ten years ago, off the coast of Zanarkand."

[Yuna turns away]

Yuna
"I'm sorry."

Tidus
"He went out to sea for training one day...and never came back."
"And no one's seen him since then."

Yuna
"Why, that's the day that Jecht came to Spira."
"It's true! I first met Jecht ten years and three months ago!"
"I remember, that was the day my father left."
"The date fits, doesn't it?"

Reference:
http://www.ffwa.org/ff10/script.php?page=p4-02

http://www.ffwa.org/ff10/script.php?page=p1-01
http://www.ffwa.org/ff10/script.php?page=p1-04

[Jiro]

Exploration outward of Zanarkand wouldn't be affected by that, because they don't know about Sin. The only possible explanation is that they don't care what else is out there, but that still feels weak. And why would Jecht go, if they were all designed to have minimal desire for exploration?

Sin was present starting immediately before the end of the war. Sin ended it. It was known.

I meant Dream Zanarkand.

I don't care about the logistics of the tides. Everyone else has said he was on a boat. If he swam, I don't care. Being a sarcastic bastard and telling me to download an app to waterproof my phone which clearly would not work is probably not the best way to continue the discussion.

[Tavrobel]

"Everyone else" as in the one other person in this thread who conjectured that Jecht got on a boat but which was clearly untrue? I answered your questions and I gave you sources. He did not simply "get on a boat."

If you think that people not wanting to leave DZ because they didn't care is a weak explanation, you can feel free to do so. I never said it wasn't weak. It's just the only one we have based on evidence found within the game.

Your hostility is unfounded.