So can people potentially use magic without materia?

[Wolf Kanno]

Just an amusing topic I pondered the other day. If materia is simply the concentrated knowledge of the Ancients and thus we can allude from this statement that the Ancients could cast magic without the aid of materia because they are in tune with the planet, does this mean that humans can potentially relearn to use magic without the aid of materia?

[Ayen]

I'm working under a distant memory of all things VII so error is to be expected.

I would think so. Since the people of Gaia have relied in Material for magic for so long I imagine it'd take a lot of training and discipline to achieve, but wouldn't be impossible.

[VeloZer0]

The whole 'concentrated knowledge of the Ancients' line never made much sense to me. I don't think it is supposed to be taken literally. I mean, they condense this stuff in Mako Reactors.

Far more likely is that through contact with the materia it enables you to make a connection with the planet that the Ancients would have understood how to do directly. In this way you are using a simple object as a stand in for a larger body of knowledge.

[Mirage]

Materia is just the condensed knowledge of the ancients, but I don't think the ancients were (are) the only ones who can use magic. Not all "knowledge of the ancients" is magic either, some are just special abilities. I consider all non-physical limit breaks to be a sort of magic current-day regular FFVII characters can perform, just that it's not enabled by materia use.

[Skyblade]

The Ancients needed Materia as well. Otherwise there would be no point to the Temple of the Ancients. Seal away and enshrine what, to them, is a black rock, when people could just summon Meteor with their minds? Heck, the walls of the shrine make it seem like the one who used the Black Materia was a ruler among the Cetra. If it can drive a class system, it has a purpose to them.

[Big D]

I think the Ancients had certain innate magical abilities. They couldn't just up and summon Meteor, since that was a power with a planetary scale, but they certainly had preternatural and magical abilities of their own. Since Materia is the (naturally or artificially) condensed energy of the Lifestream, it can contain traces of the spirit and mind of someone or something that lived and died eons ago - including the Ancients.

I think some of those abilities lived on in the human descendents of the Cetra. Limit Breaks are a good example - many are magical in nature, yet don't require Materia.

[Jiro]

Gonna agree with ya, Big D.

[Sephiroth]

The whole 'concentrated knowledge of the Ancients' line never made much sense to me. I don't think it is supposed to be taken literally. I mean, they condense this stuff in Mako Reactors.

Far more likely is that through contact with the materia it enables you to make a connection with the planet that the Ancients would have understood how to do directly. In this way you are using a simple object as a stand in for a larger body of knowledge.

It is both. It says it has the Cetra's knowledge and that Materia is the catalyst for the human body to use the magic. The planet gets drained energy when magic is cast, which is the reason why Cloud and the other's pretty much don't use it anymore, still Materia is just a "mediator" for being and magic. Cetra have special abilities in the first place so that Materia contains their spirit and connection to the planet is the only thing possible for the degenerate people to use magic as they have no own knowledge of how to use it (Aerith neither). However it is possible that people learn to use magic. You even need to learn using Materia. Sephiroth has studied and absorbed the Ancient's knowledge and Aerith was able to use Holy after she has learned about it in the Forgotten Capital. Avalanche now has some Cetra-like connection to the planet, still it requires more own skills than just that - and they wouldn't use it in the first place. Meteor and Holy were more plot device than anything. The problem is not really how big the magic is but that you need to tell a story. Just as Sephiroth didn't kill the sleeping party in prison.

LIMIT Breaks are no magic, except you mean it in the context of "mobilizing your own strength". LIMIT Breaks don't drain the planet's power.

[Mirage]

I mean that limit breaks are magic in the sense that some of them are not physical, but instead use some sort of spiritual energy, such as Healing Wind, Clear Tranquil and even summoning a huge whirlwind (Finishing Touch). I consider the term "magic" to just be some catch-all term for a whole range of attacks and skills that aren't explained as physical or technological attacks or skills.

[Jiro]

Hojo would be so mad with you all.

Sephiroth
"A man once told me never to use an unscientific term such as mysterious power! It shouldn't even be called magic!"

[Mirage]

But see that is my entire point. If the lightning strikes that you use via materia can be called magic, why can't the lightning strikes caused by a limit break be called magic? It's all the same stuff and whatever.

[VeloZer0]

This isn't something that is supported at all by the game, but the concept that one source of 'magic' can come from one thing (energy of the planet) and other 'magic' from another thing (say, your own internal ki) isn't all that uncommon in Japanese fictional media.