"I'm not hero. Never was. I'm just an old killer hired to do some wetwork"

[Bolivar]

I think this might be it. Original canon has him in in Rhodesia and Mozambique in the 80s with Big Boss and I believe some of the game will take place in Africa.

3 - Favorite
1
4
2
PW - Still a special game to me if I really had to let one go, this would be it.

[Scotty_ffgamer]

From favorite to least favorite, I'd rank the games:
1
3
2
PW
4
MG2: Solid Snake
Ground Zeroes
MG1

I love all of the games, and ranking them is pretty arbitrary for me since they are so close together in my mind. MGS1 was the first I played, and it holds a lot of nostalgic value for that. Recognizing this is with a nostalgic lens, it is pretty close to the perfect game in my mind.

The last three were kind of hard to think about placement. MG1 I just don't remember all that well. MG2 has also not been played in a few years, but I really enjoyed that game. Ground Zeroes just sort of loses points for not being a complete game story-wise. The gameplay is solid and possibly my favorite in the series. My opinion will probably change of that once The Phantom Pain comes out in which I'll probably just consider them one game.

As for which I could live without, it would be the first Metal Gear. It's an important game for the series for obvious reasons, but it's the least fun for me to return to now despite still liking it quite a bit. If we're only counting the Solid series (and withholding judgment on Ground Zeroes for now), I'd say Peace Walker. While I enjoy returning to that one more than MGS4 now, MGS4 is just more important to me story-wise.

[Del Murder]

I think this might be it. Original canon has him in in Rhodesia and Mozambique in the 80s with Big Boss and I believe some of the game will take place in Africa.

3 - Favorite
1
4
2
PW - Still a special game to me if I really had to let one go, this would be it.

Same order for me though I haven't played PW. Snake Eater was the best game and I'm sad that the hunting/eating mechanic hasn't been introduced into other games.

[Bolivar]

You should try it, Del, I think you might be pleasantly surprised!

[Ayen]

Metal Gear Solid
Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Metal Gear Solid The Twin Snakes
Metal Gear
Metal Gear 2 Solid Snake

I've yet to play 4 and can't play any of the PSP ones. I could live without the original games.

[Bolivar]

Last bit of evangelizing: Peace Walker is also available in HD for PS3 and 360 as part of the MGS Collection that includes Sons of Liberty and Snake Eater Subsistence remastered. That version of PW has online Co op which I'm always down for if anyone ever needs a partner in stealth.

[Wolf Kanno]

Rankings:
8. Metal Gear - Not a bad game, but it's designed isn't strong enough to deal with the horrors of time. More puzzle game than anything.

7. Metal Gear Solid: Portable OPS - Decent non-Kojima game, came up with some great ideas for gameplay but the story makes a few wrong turns by trying too hard to suck up to nostalgia and it's retcons diminish some of the characters. Young Campbell was pretty fun though and I enjoyed using teams of recruits and the tactical dilemma of trying to get a knocked out soldier back to the truck for recruitment.

6. Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots - Third person shooter control break the delicate balance of the gameplay, most new gameplay features feel trivial instead of like actual advancements. Plot is a mess, but after the mindscrew that was MGS2 was better than expected. Still fun to play through and has some really good interactive moments in the game.

5. Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker - Re-uses a lot of gameplay ideas and themes from Portable OPS so it doesn't feel quite as "original" as I would like. Very repetitive boss fights. Still has strong story moments and gameplay is largely an improvement over MPO.

4. Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty - Great use of a new physics engine and better controls for the game make this really fun to play. It's plot feels unnecessarily convoluted and I feel it's themes and characters get lost in a plot that feels like Kojima was reading Jesse Ventura conspiracy novels or watching the History Channel.

3. Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake - Surprisingly good game with some very clever puzzles and boss fights. It's plot has moments of brillance followed by elements that feel like they came from the script of some cheesy 80s Saturday morning cartoon show. Still, I was a bit shocked how much MGS1 borrowed from this game.

2. Metal Gear Solid - Still has the best story and cast in the series. Time has had a mixed impact on this game with it's music, story, and even some of its visuals still feel very powerful but gameplay has definitely not aged well, especially when going from more recent entries back to this one. This game still has a special place in my heart though.

1. Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater - Has one of the most powerful stories and themes in the series and excellent gameplay and direction. Easily holds most of my favorite boss fights in the series and has the best support crew interaction in the series. Granted the game sometimes is a bit too tongue and cheek and it's humor sometimes run's counter to the dark undertone of the plot and character dramas, but I still feel that collectively this is the best MGS in every category.

[Forsaken Lover]

Buncha conformists. Gotta pop in here and tell you all the real deal about this here Metal Gear.

See there was this game. Called Metal Gear Solid 2. Was pretty brilliant. Too brilliant, as President Shinra might say. As such people whined and complained that their video game was making them think.

So Kojima said "here, this game doesn't make you think." Thus Metal Gear Solid 3 was born. A half-assed James Bond-inspired mess starring Solid Snake's clone Naked Snake. He's Solid Snake but with a beard so he's different! And then you got Evil Russian Badguyovsky and Bond Girl McSluttiness. And a dude covered in bees. Yes, BRILLIANT boss design there. Oh an The Fury is just Vulcan Raven but substitute vulcan cannon for flamethrower.

*nods and puffs on pipe* Metal Gear Solid and Metal Gear Solid 2 were great games of vision and brilliance. I would say MGS1 is the sum total of what we got in 2 and 3 - an intellectual story (2) and a sentimental story (3) but all in a singular package. Hence why MGS1 is the best and always will be the best.

MGS1 > MGS2 >MG2: Solid Snake > MGS3 > MG1

I don't think there were any games besides those ones.

(SPOILER)I like MGS3 but damn if it isn't overrated.

FOXHOUND remains the best boss team by a country mile. Favorite support team is a bit harder to decide. I loved Nastasha's info about nukes. Para-Medic though had some cool info about old movies which I also love. And don't care what anyone says, Rose is awesome. So is "Colonel."

[Wolf Kanno]

You're a fan of the VR theory aren't you?

[Forsaken Lover]

What? No, I never agreed with that. Everything in MGS2 most definitely happened. It kinda cheapens Raiden's character if it was all an illusion.

The fact stuff gets really trippy later on is just meant to be trippy, not representative of it being fake.

I do like that stuff such as the VR Theory exists though because it shows MGS2's greatness. There are so many ways to "read the game" if you will, so many interpretations and ideas.

You don't get that with MGS3, or even MGS1. MGS2 is the game that makes you think the most.

[Bolivar]

See there was this game. Called Metal Gear Solid 2. Was pretty brilliant. Too brilliant, as President Shinra might say.

EPIC Forsaken Lover post right here!!

The one thing that does knock against MGS3 is that, as much as I love the Cobras, they were the beginning of the bosses losing their personality and motivations. The next games had the B&Bs who didn't even talk at all (Drebin's Codec story time was one of the few things that legitimately piss me off about MGS4) and Peace Walker's bosses were literally combat vehicles! Oh and the AI prototypes.

[Pete for President]

What? No, I never agreed with that. Everything in MGS2 most definitely happened. It kinda cheapens Raiden's character if it was all an illusion.

The fact stuff gets really trippy later on is just meant to be trippy, not representative of it being fake.

I do like that stuff such as the VR Theory exists though because it shows MGS2's greatness. There are so many ways to "read the game" if you will, so many interpretations and ideas.

You don't get that with MGS3, or even MGS1. MGS2 is the game that makes you think the most.

I dig MGS2 and the VR psychedelicness too. It is all about digital information control (read: manipulation) after all. It grew on me over the years and the soundtrack ranks among the most memorable of the series.

However the way we progress through the oil rig is kinda lame. I've mentioned this in other MGS threads but Kojima's original idea was to have (AI) Rose kidnapped on the platform, albeit the only "evidence" of this would be codec conversation. She would be "moved" constantly and this was eventually supposed to make Raiden doubt whether she was here or even existed at all. Sounds to me like a much more fitting objective rather than freezing a bunch of bombs scattered across the rig.

[Wolf Kanno]

I do like that stuff such as the VR Theory exists though because it shows MGS2's greatness. There are so many ways to "read the game" if you will, so many interpretations and ideas.

You don't get that with MGS3, or even MGS1. MGS2 is the game that makes you think the most.

I don't know, for me it was all just a redo of René Descartes' Cartesian Doubt which was already blown out of proportion in The Matrix, and was handled better by Ghost in the Shell nearly a decade earlier. It's also less satisfying since trying to utilize this theory by ignoring a theistic model of the universe or accepting a materialistic model of the universe largely leads the whole thing in doubt.

My issue with MGS2 and why I dislike it less than MGS1 and 3 is because it wades in too deep into outrageous conspiracy theory territory. What I always felt was the real beauty of MGS1 was that with the exception of some supernatural powers (Mantis and Raven) and the Cyborg Ninja, everything in MGS1 felt plausible. U.S. government showing a face of wanting to rid the world of nuclear weapons while secretly building the nuclear weapon to end all nuclear weapons? Sounds about right and feels more realistic than saying that the U.S. is controlled by a secret cabal of computer A.I. On a similar note, clandestine mission to infiltrate Cold War era Russia and rescue a scientist traded to end the Cuban Missile Crisis followed by a mission to kill a secret double agent to save face? Sounds pretty plausible and I love how MGS3 plays with historical events from that era.

Rex, Ray, and the Shagahod might all be an impossibility from an engineering standpoint, but Rex at least acts like what you would expect from an early giant robot, it's sluggish, slow, and lumbering. You can tell it would need a full battalion to protect it. Ray on the other hand is jumping, back-flipping, swimming through the ocean like a fish and it can bleed. Shagahod is somewhere in the middle, sure it's premise and design is probably making some rocket scientist bang his head on the wall for oversimplifying rocketry but outside of some impossible speeds and maneuverability it doesn't feel too future tech. It's a far cry from the A.I. Pods from Peace Walker or the Geckos from MGS4. That's the issue here, it's all about the games ability to maintain a sense of disbelief and I just feel that MGS2 crossed the line too many times to be taken seriously, not that MGS3 isn't pushing the boundaries itself but in the aftermath of MGS2, it felt less hokey.

The other issue is that while MGS2 does make you think, it lacks the strong character driven narrative of MGS1 and 3. Raiden is kind of just haphazardly thrown from one moment to the next, and doesn't get any real hard-hitting character development until near the game's end. On the other hand, MGS1 is all about Snake being pulled back from retirement, dealing with his legendary status, why he can't find peace in his life, his frustration with his government and his uneasy relationship with others. From the beginning we're introduced to a broken man who through the mission finally finds for himself a higher purpose for his skills and the story deals with whether he is cursed by his choices or if he is cursed by his genetic relationship with Big Boss. MGS3 is all about watching Big Boss start his decent into darkness. Watching him go from a loyal soldier to someone who will one day wage war against his country and the world. He holds an idealistic view of patriotism and being a soldier in the beginning and by the end, he is a broken man who is questioning everything. MGS explores the concept of history and it's effects on politics and the world. It asks the player to really take a look at the themes of nationalism and patriotism in relation to the times. Besides I've always been partial to villain protagonists and their fall from grace, it's why I am actually looking forward to MGSV cause it's the Big Boss game I've wanted since MGS3.

This is not to say that I felt Raiden was poorly done, he is probably the most interesting character in the story but his relevance to the plot comes too late for me to feel the game is really about him. I will still take it over the characterization suicides that happen to half the cast in MGS4 of which I felt Raiden got hit the hardest cause apparently angsting over PTSD caused by being a child-soldier is lame, but angsting about being turned into a robot and unable to have a family life cause the writers decided to retcon all of his character development in MGS2 is A-Ok as long as he is emulating Gray Fox who is nothing but awesomness.

Raiden is a good character but his personal story just wasn't as strong as Solid Snake and Big Boss.

[Psychotic]

What a thrill...

[Forsaken Lover]

@Wolf:

I see what you're saying. Raiden's lack of "character" for most of the game was intentional. I'm sure you are aware of the "Raiden Is You" concept of MGS2. The problem is that, with the original MGS, Kojima tried to do the same thing. He took this "legendary badass" Solid Snake that most gamers would "love to be" and made him a depressed, broken shell of a man drinking himself to death in the middle of nowhere. On the surface, Solid Snake is every action hero fantasy. In reality, you should want to be everyone EXCEPT him.

That didn't work. People still wanted to be Snake.

Hence there is Raiden - a nancyboy who gets picked on by his girlfriend, peed on, slips on bird crap, and is all-around a tool and a fool. To cap it all off, you learn about his past, a past arguably even worse than Snake's. This is why I fully believe the Raiden Is You/You Suck belief about Sons of Liberty's story.

Whatever other disagreements we may have about MGS, I'm glad we can be united in our dislike for everything after MGS3. ") I don't worship it like others but I do enjoy Snake Eater. On a purely gameplay level, it is most definitely the superior of Sons of Liberty. Much like Xenogears, MGS2 is not a game I replay for the gameplay.

Also i just want to put this here because I made it and I wish MGS2's OST got more love.