"I'm not hero. Never was. I'm just an old killer hired to do some wetwork"

[Wolf Kanno]

Snake is sort of a deconstruction of the legendary war hero, whereas I agree that Raiden is a deconstruction of the player. I never really was bothered by Raiden getting picked on in the game except with Rosemary who I felt undermined his character and the game, the rest of the stuff is just the series quirky humor but listening to Rosemary go on and on easily pulled me out of the experience and was just the first of many obvious clues that something about the mission wasn't right.

I don't necessarily hate the post-MGS3 titles, MGS4 does just as many things right as I felt it did wrong and I forgive it more than I should cause I understand that it was trying to get the series out of the corner that MGS2 kind of wrote it into, but I also understand that it was Kojima's intentions to leave MGS2 as it was. I don't think it was an accident MGS3 was a sequel that barely connected to the events of MGS2. Kojima gave in and gave the fans a sequel but not the one they asked for.

Portable OPs is pretty forgettable and I'm waiting for Kojima to finally say it is non-canon but Peace Walker was actually a pretty decent story by the end even if I felt it simply retreaded on character development Big Boss already received and transformed The Boss into some mythical Saint figure. Hell, while I can't justify buying Ground Zeroes cause it feels like a rip-off I can say that what I've read about the story has me a bit more excited about Phantom Pain.

I'm sadly the opposite of you, I play MGS2 more for the gameplay than the story as I can't really get behind the plot of this one.

To leave this on a positive note, these are hilarious and must be viewed:

[Bolivar]

I don't necessarily hate the post-MGS3 titles, MGS4 does just as many things right as I felt it did wrong and I forgive it more than I should cause I understand that it was trying to get the series out of the corner that MGS2 kind of wrote it into, but I also understand that it was Kojima's intentions to leave MGS2 as it was.

I always take what he says about ending the series with MGS2 (and MGS3 (and stepping away with MGS4)) with a grain of salt, since he's said elsewhere he always claims it will be the last one so that he and the team will leave nothing on the table, they won't get another chance to make a better sequel. An artists vision is only real when it's fixed (hence why that's only when we give copyright).

Honestly the plot in 4 threw feasibility out the window (on some points) but that was a tribute to MGS2, just like the game emulated MGS 1 and 3 in other ways (and even MG1 and 2). The game was less about satisfying fans with what happened after 2 than it was a celebration everything the series accomplished via showcasing the power of the PS3. It was more of a tribute game than a sequel, hence why it didn't take itself as seriously as some of the more anal fans did. The only legit grief I have with the game is the reduction of the Codec team and the B&Bs back stories being bed time stories via Drebin (bad storytelling).

Every other complaint I've heard about it has been fairly arbitrary.

[Wolf Kanno]

I don't necessarily hate the post-MGS3 titles, MGS4 does just as many things right as I felt it did wrong and I forgive it more than I should cause I understand that it was trying to get the series out of the corner that MGS2 kind of wrote it into, but I also understand that it was Kojima's intentions to leave MGS2 as it was.

I always take what he says about ending the series with MGS2 (and MGS3 (and stepping away with MGS4)) with a grain of salt, since he's said elsewhere he always claims it will be the last one so that he and the team will leave nothing on the table, they won't get another chance to make a better sequel. An artists vision is only real when it's fixed (hence why that's only when we give copyright).

Considering he has mentioned he got death threats from fans and was heavily pressured by the MGS Design team to make MGS4, I feel you are purposely blinding yourself from the truth to make you not feel bad about contributing to making this guy work only on MGS for the rest of his days. He never intended to make MGS2, and he has said that although he enjoyed the 25 years of MGS, he doesn't want to be around for the next 25 years. Just because he says it is his last game doesn't mean it was the end of MGS, he has been trying to hand off the series to his team since MGS2 and they, along with fans, keep pushing back on him and so he caves and starts working on the next game. Lots of series have moved past their creators and most have flourished. I feel fans need to stop equating Kojima with MGS as though one can't happen without the other. Will it not be as good without him? Maybe, but we don't really know because no one has seriously tried to do it cause everyone is too scared to let it happen.

Honestly the plot in 4 threw feasibility out the window (on some points) but that was a tribute to MGS2, just like the game emulated MGS 1 and 3 in other ways (and even MG1 and 2). The game was less about satisfying fans with what happened after 2 than it was a celebration everything the series accomplished via showcasing the power of the PS3. It was more of a tribute game than a sequel, hence why it didn't take itself as seriously as some of the more anal fans did. The only legit grief I have with the game is the reduction of the Codec team and the B&Bs back stories being bed time stories via Drebin (bad storytelling).

Every other complaint I've heard about it has been fairly arbitrary.

I don't know man, after painstakingly describing the use of nanotechnology in the first two games as a form of hard science fiction and then arbitrarily making them the magic cure-all to hand wave every plot point in MGS4 kind of feels like a cop-out to me. Naomi and Big Boss' deaths also served no purpose other then to get rid of them and add unnecessary drama cause both Snake and Otcaon need to lose a loved one in every MGS game. I never saw a reason to explain Vamp's power and Raiden's entire story arc retcons his rather upbeat ending in MGS2. Also, why is Snake whining around about dying from premature old age in a world where nanomachines can apparently bring you back from the dead? I mean the collapse of the established world design leads to more plot holes than it was trying to resolve. The game's plot was already going to be screwed trying to resolve something Kojima never intended to be resolved but he did such a sloppy job doing it that it was often painful to watch unfold.

The game has some strong moments but it's strung together with such unnecessary bulltrout that it's hard to justify swimming through the muck to get to the few jewels in it all. Hell, I wish the game retained it's original ending where Snake and Otacon were executed for war crimes by the U.N. over the ending we got.

[Bolivar]

Well, I think "purposely blinding" myself to exculpate the harm I've caused Kojima might be a little extreme, no? I'm just taking about video games here...

Honestly, I would take your critiques as valid if it weren't for you, again, taking things way too seriously. The art direction and gameplay scenarios were so outstanding and memorable, I'm willing to forgive the plot for wanting to have a little fun and fan service. What's the harm in that?

[Wolf Kanno]

The issue here is not fanservice. I never mentioned anything wrong with the game's gratuitous fanservice cause the series overall is kind of known for that. The problem here is that the plot is just kind of a mess in MGS4, as I stated he overuses nanomachines to get himself out of corners he wrote himself into, kills characters off unnecessarily for minor impacts considering how cheap death is in the series, and purposely retcons character growth just so they will have something to still angst about in the plot. These are not fanservice issues, these are the results of sloppy writing.

If I come off taking this too seriously it's simply because I wish to see things reach there true potential and witnessing creators half-assing it and then fans slurping it up and asking for more is not exactly ideal for perfection. If you don't push people to strive for the best they will never improve. If you tell them that mediocrity is good enough, you give people the terrible impression not to bother achieving their full potential because they will simply be rewarded the same whether they truly tried or simply just put enough effort into it, and if you don't call people out on when they make a mistake, then you have doomed yourself and them to repeat it because they don't know any better. Course you also stated I was a social gadfly so take these statement as you please. coffee5.gif

Some things to look at:



I also found this awhile ago and am bit concerned...

Hideo Kojima Says Last Half of MGSV will Retcon the First Half of the Game - Play4Real

[Scotty_ffgamer]

For what it's worth, the article you linked to that concerns you is from a satire website. It's like The Onion for video games.

[Wolf Kanno]

I figured, Kojima is honest but not that honest.

[Forsaken Lover]

Let's get away from the negativity for a bit.

Who is everyone's favorite voice-actors/actresses?

For me it's...
David Hayter as Solid Snake - mainly in MGS1 and 2.
Cam Clarke as Liquid Snake - The Ham of Hams!
Patric Zimmerman as Revolver Ocelot - I never cared much for "Young Ocelot". He neither looked as cool or sounded as cool. Zimmerman's voice is just so, so good.
John Cygan as Solidus Snake - Why he isn't voicing Old Big Boss, I have no idea.
Paul Eiding as Colonel Campbell - He tends to be overlooked but Eiding is great.
Lara Cody as Rosemary - Also tends to be overlooked but also really nice. Both she and Eiding pulled off "evil robot us'es" exceptionally well in the end of MGS2.

[Bolivar]

So hard to pick just one but as much as I enjoyed Kiefer in Ground Zeroes and think he will make an amazing boss, I will always miss David Hayter. I think it would be great if they brought him back if they ever did a Solid spinoff or a younger Boss game. Just tell him not to overdo the gravelliness.

[Wolf Kanno]

Yeah I am still hoping for Hayter to make a brief appearance as Solid Snake in Phantom Pain, maybe the hidden codec call at the end of the credits with Big Boss sending him out on the mission for Metal Gear.

Honestly, the VA work in the series is pretty top-notch so it is difficult for me to really choose one VA over another.

[Forsaken Lover]

Ya know, for MGS 1, did anyone else ever get the impression it wasn't supposed to be a super-serious story? Like, it didn't have the outright silly moments ala mGS3 but overall it just felt like Kojima was making one of those semi-parody action flicks from the 80s he so loved. Stuff like Liquid being The Terminator with no explanation, the overall tone of certain scenes and exchanges.... It was a great game with a really cool story but it wasn't like the games that came after IMO.

[Bolivar]

It had a really rugged veneer with some flashes of quirkiness in it, to be sure.

[KentaRawr!]

I've been on a massive Metal Gear kick lately. I beat MGS1 a few times, then went on to MGS2 and MGS3. I beat Portable Ops. again, and now I'm on Peace Walker again. MGS2 and 3 are probably my favorites, but I think most of what I like about MGS3 is its characters, who are most fully realized in the completely optional radio calls. I didn't really appreciate the work the voice actors go through until I decided to actually call The Boss during the Virtuous Mission and realized there was a huge amount of dialogue there. It's really jarring when you actually receive calls from your support team if you never call them yourself.

Peace Walker is immensely enjoyable, but I don't think I'm going to plow through it like I did the others. I've Metal Gear'd myself out.

[Ayen]

I don't know man, after painstakingly describing the use of nanotechnology in the first two games as a form of hard science fiction and then arbitrarily making them the magic cure-all to hand wave every plot point in MGS4 kind of feels like a cop-out to me.

"Hey boss, how are we going to explain Big Boss still being alive?"
"Nanomachines."
"What about Vamp's regenerative abilities?"
"Nanomachines."
"And the--?"
"Nanomachines."
"How about the--?"
"Nanomachines."
"You can't explain everything with nanomachines!"
"You're right, we'll explain the background of the Patriots by making the founding members the cast of MGS3.
"Well, that's pretty cool--"
"And then we'll kill them all!"
*sniff* "Even Para-Medic?"
>.> "Especially Para-Medic."
"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"

....I've been playing Metal Gear Solid 4. The learning curve is a pain in the ass if all you're used to is the first three Metal Gear Solid games. The other games in the series don't play like 4, do they? Because I can't say the changes to the gameplay has me all that excited.

[Bolivar]

If the changes you're referring to are over-the-shoulder camera and no radar, then yeah, Peace Walker and MGSV follow that trend. IMO it makes for a much more immersive and challenging stealth experience, whereas the first three games were more like Pac Man runs (not that that wasn't fun).