This Game is Overrated

[Psychotic]

It's been going on for much longer than just this thread. This telling off is the product of years of pent up eye rolling.

[The Man]

just saying, if you really wanted that rant to hit home for people you could have waited to place it in a thread where it actually described what was happening in that thread

[Psychotic]

Nah, I feel better now. Thanks though!

[Carl the Llama]

Not really. The amount of people who haven't played FFVII pales in comparison to the amount of people who haven't played FFVI. Not to mention that FFVII's graphics (at least in their original form; the PC version's patches admittedly mitigate this somewhat) actually do look bad, while FFVI's have aged quite well.

I actually disagree, sure the graphics aren't top notch, but I have no problem what so ever playing the game in its original form, I am actually doing so right now (albeit through an emulator) and honestly I couldn't complain, the pre rendered backgrounds have a certain charm and the battle screen looks excellent.

I also disagree that VI has aged well, for one I tried to get my brother interested in VI and he tried... but couldn't play it for long before giving up, citing that he just couldn't adjust to the graphics (he is a bit of a graphics whore) where as he completes VII VIII and IX without moaning about their graphics.

All seriousness aside, the fact that people the world over are still asking for a remake for a game made over 17 years ago still holds the truest, FFVII IS the most popular Final Fantasy out there, and no amount of but this and why that is going to change it.

Final Fantasy VII is one of the best-selling games of all time, with the highest sales (10.5 million copies) of any game in the Final Fantasy series, and the second highest sales for a game on the PlayStation platform. It received GameSpot's Editor's Choice, scoring a 9.5/10 and a 9.6/10 user score. Since its debut on the Sony PlayStation, Final Fantasy VII has been released on the PC and the PlayStation Network. It is widely considered one of the most influential RPGs to-date.

Any way you look at it VII is the most popular FF which is why whenever you get threads like these, the fans who think their game is better invariably seem to compare VII to theirs, pointing out the various "flaws" VII seems to have, while bigging their game up.

[The Man]

As has already been pointed out numerous times in this thread, most popular does not mean best. If most popular were best then presumably Kenny G would be the best jazz artist and Justin Bieber would be the best pop artist. I'm sure we all know that's not true.

Emulating FFVII really can't be compared to the original graphics of the game because there are all kinds of filters that increase the resolution and otherwise improve the appearance of the game. The original polygon graphics look terrible. The pre-rendered backgrounds and FMVs are the only unaltered parts of the original game that have aged well. Even then they are trounced by FFVIII and particularly FFIX's (which are rivalled by Chrono Cross' as some of the best of the 32-bit era).

It sounds like your brother simply doesn't appreciate good sprites. As far as 16-bit graphics go FFVI's were some of the best of the era. A few games like Chrono Trigger and Seiken Densetsu 3 could be considered to have improved on them (they were also released a year after FFVI) but they certainly were better looking than anything that had come before them.

And I could easily turn the remake argument around to suggest that in recognising the game has a lot to gain from a remake they acknowledge its flaws by suggesting that there are things to be improved upon. That said there certainly is no shortage of people wanting a FFVI remake as well. One thread speculating on the possibility here received thirteen pages, and it's hardly the only one to have plenty of people expressing desire for one.

[Carl the Llama]

As has already been pointed out numerous times in this thread, most popular does not mean best. If most popular were best then presumably Kenny G would be the best jazz artist and Justin Bieber would be the best pop artist. I'm sure we all know that's not true.

True, but I didn't say best, I said most popular. The term best can however be determined by the fact that GameFAQs held a poll (admittedly it was held in 2002 and only includes the first 10 games) and FFVII came out top (X came second and VI came third) the poll received over 38k votes and can be found here.

Emulating FFVII really can't be compared to the original graphics of the game because there are all kinds of filters that increase the resolution and otherwise improve the appearance of the game. The original polygon graphics look terrible. The pre-rendered backgrounds and FMVs are the only unaltered parts of the original game that have aged well. Even then they are trounced by FFVIII and particularly FFIX's (which are rivalled by Chrono Cross' as some of the best of the 32-bit era).

Again, that's just your opinion, my brother played my original copy of VII on his PS3 and never a mention was made about him complaining about the graphics... you say only the pre rendered background and FMVs have aged well... thats 90% of the graphics lol, and the in battle sprites look great.

It sounds like your brother simply doesn't appreciate good sprites. As far as 16-bit graphics go FFVI's were some of the best of the era. A few games like Chrono Trigger and Seiken Densetsu 3 could be considered to have improved on them (they were also released a year after FFVI) but they certainly were better looking than anything that had come before them.

They were some of the best for that era, but that in no way constitutes they have held up against the test of time, sprite are dated. and we aren't judging by what came before, we are judging if they have aged well, and the simple fact that there are people who would give up on a chance to play this excellent game because of their graphics shows that they haven't aged well.

And I could easily turn the remake argument around to suggest that in recognising the game has a lot to gain from a remake they acknowledge its flaws by suggesting that there are things to be improved upon. That said there certainly is no shortage of people wanting a FFVI remake as well. One thread speculating on the possibility here received thirteen pages, and it's hardly the only one to have plenty of people expressing desire for one.

No, I honestly don't think you could. I (and many other fans) have said why we want a remake, and that's because we love the game and would dearly love a remake so we can see it by todays standard... many have said they just want a graphical update, no changes other then seeing it in glorious HD.

The simple fact that people have been making threads about a remake for VII and the fact that there is a stickied thread about it in this very forum (because it used to crop up soooo often) just goes to show how popular it is.

[The Man]

>implying that the votes of GameFAQs users have anything to do with "best"
that's just another form of popularity contest

I could just as easily say that the Metacritic scores of FFVI, FFIX, FFXII and CT being higher than the Metacritic score of FFVII shows that they're better games, but I'm not that kind of petty individual.

The pre-rendered backgrounds and FMVs are not "90%" of the graphics. You spend easily half the game staring at the character renders. They look atrocious. The comparison with sprites isn't applicable at all: FFVI's graphics remain some of the best sprite graphics in history. Dismissing an entire graphic style because some people find it "dated" is not the same as dismissing graphics that have been easily eclipsed by better examples of the same graphic style. FFVII looks like trout compared to FFIX. FFVI does not look like trout compared to Chrono Trigger or Suikoden II. Comparing FFVI's graphics to FFVII's is an apples to oranges comparison. Comparing FFVII's to FFIX's, or FFVI's to those of any modern sprite game, is not.

There are people who want FFVII remade so they can fix glaring flaws with the game other than its graphics. Even people who like the game, for example, generally admit that the translation we got was an atrocious clustersmurf that created unnecessary ambiguities in the story and renders parts of the game almost incomprehensible. The fact that Square felt they had to clarify so much of the game with five dozen (note: this is hyperbole) Ultimanias and similar indicates that they themselves realised they screwed up. If the game stood on its own, they probably wouldn't feel it needed so much clarification. Granted, arguments could be made (and in fact I have made them in some cases) that the clarifications often actually made the original game worse, but regardless, the storytelling in some cases is sloppy and the translation is much worse.

And again: an argument from popularity is no testament to actual quality.

[Ayen]

I still have my hard copy of VII for the PlayStation. I played the game on a 40 inched wide-screen TV. The graphics didn't bother me. The polygons didn't bother me. Which is more than I can say for Final Fantasy VIII where my eyes needed a moment to adjust. The first time I played VI the sprites and graphics on that didn't bother me either. Both games have aged just fine through the years in spite of their limitations at the time. But if you didn't like the polygons or the sprites the first time around then chances are you never will. The majority of VII fans don't give a damn how bad the polygons look, at least not to the point where it would stop them from playing the game. The same goes for any of the flaws VI may have to a fan of the game. And if you're talking strictly visuals you're never going to agree. The best games I have ever played had graphics that would be considered absolute trout by today's standards, and I would take them over any of the games with superb graphics that somehow manages to only offer half of what the former does.

[blackmage_nuke]

i agree yuo cant even call airstrikes in tihs game

Yes you can

I think this game deserves the rating it gets

[Carl the Llama]

>implying that the votes of GameFAQs users have anything to do with "best"
that's just another form of popularity contest

I could just as easily say that the Metacritic scores of FFVI, FFIX, FFXII and CT being higher than the Metacritic score of FFVII shows that they're better games, but I'm not that kind of petty individual.

You could, but then you would be mistaken, FFVI, FFVII, FFXII and CT all get a Metacritic score of 92%, I just checked. Aside from that the term "best" is subjective, for you it means quality, to me it means game that has the highest rating by the fans of said games. I would also point out that metacritic is based upon the scores of the 20 critic reviews out there published by companies, companies that have a limited number of peoples opinions, where as the poll I provided had many voices, and in the opinion of those people (the gamers) FFVII is the best, simple as. Sure its a matter of opinion on how you define the word best but you could say that about anything, to me the majority wins out, that is how I define the word, so by default to me FFVII IS the best.

The pre-rendered backgrounds and FMVs are not "90%" of the graphics. You spend easily half the game staring at the character renders. They look atrocious. The comparison with sprites isn't applicable at all: FFVI's graphics remain some of the best sprite graphics in history. Dismissing an entire graphic style because some people find it "dated" is not the same as dismissing graphics that have been easily eclipsed by better examples of the same graphic style. FFVII looks like trout compared to FFIX. FFVI does not look like trout compared to Chrono Trigger or Suikoden II. Comparing FFVI's graphics to FFVII's is an apples to oranges comparison. Comparing FFVII's to FFIX's, or FFVI's to those of any modern sprite game, is not.

Ok so you really want to stress this fact, I just googled a random review of FFVII from 1997 and can you guess what it said? This:

What is necessary during the game's normal progression is the capacity for awe. FF7's graphics are light years beyond anything ever seen on the PlayStation, making Wild Arms look like a Yarouze demo (we have nothing against Wild Arms, but FF7 is that good). The game begins in an enormous industrial complex housed in a futuristic city, and remains there for the first seven or eight hours of play. Just when it appears that the entire game will take place in the city, the venue changes to a fully 3D, fully rotatable engine, and players will find that the city is a mere dot on the enormous world map.

Nothing about how horrendous the polygons look, "awe inspiring" pretty much say it all. Arguing about a games graphics is like arguing how a steak looks, when you should be arguing about the taste. Taking into the fact that the game started development in 1994 when the PSone was brand new speaks pretty much for itself.

Then lets consider the graphics of FFIV V and VI:





And now CT:



I don't know about you, but I consider CTs graphics far superior to graphics from VI. And when considering FF snes games alone, I would actually say V trumps VI in terms of graphics. But hey, that's just my opinion.

There are people who want FFVII remade so they can fix glaring flaws with the game other than its graphics. Even people who like the game, for example, generally admit that the translation we got was an atrocious clustersmurf that created unnecessary ambiguities in the story and renders parts of the game almost incomprehensible. The fact that Square felt they had to clarify so much of the game with five dozen (note: this is hyperbole) Ultimanias and similar indicates that they themselves realised they screwed up. If the game stood on its own, they probably wouldn't feel it needed so much clarification. Granted, arguments could be made (and in fact I have made them in some cases) that the clarifications often actually made the original game worse, but regardless, the storytelling in some cases is sloppy and the translation is much worse.

Would you give me some examples of these so called "glaring flaws" and "almost incomprehensible" because I never encountered such while I was playing.

[Sephiroth]

It is overrated. It deserves to get much love but is only even more popular because it is cool to hate other popular things, the anti-hype-hype.

More importantly and incontrovertibly, the sheer number of people who didn't get, for example, that the "Sephiroth" the party follows for the first disc is a clone (as demonstrated by browsing any Final Fantasy-related message board about ten years ago) attests to poor storytelling.

What you don't get is that he isn't a clone and the Final Fantasy VII you think of never existed and also was not retconned in that way. Just as people don't know what canonicity means nowadays. Or the incredible number of people that ignore flat-out stated facts.

[Wolf Kanno]

So it begins...

[metagloria]

And when considering FF snes games alone, I would actually say V trumps VI in terms of graphics. But hey, that's just my opinion.

Nope, it's also my opinion. One of the many reasons I think V is a better game than VI.

[Carl the Llama]

And when considering FF snes games alone, I would actually say V trumps VI in terms of graphics. But hey, that's just my opinion.

Nope, it's also my opinion. One of the many reasons I think V is a better game than VI.

You do know trumps means better... right? I was saying V has better graphics then VI.

[metagloria]

And when considering FF snes games alone, I would actually say V trumps VI in terms of graphics. But hey, that's just my opinion.

Nope, it's also my opinion. One of the many reasons I think V is a better game than VI.

You do know trumps means better... right? I was saying V has better graphics then VI.

So was I. In response to you saying "that's just my opinion", I said "Nope, it's also my opinion." Like, agreeing with you.