We can rebuild him, make him faster, stronger...

[Mercen-X]

OOOOOOOOOOOH! A Final Fantasy wherein the entire story takes place inside a computer... oh, wait... no, no, not quite the same as TTEOT. SO imagines the universe as a game played by a species of fourth-dimensional beings. But what if the characters already knew they were in a computer. It'd be like a FF version of Matrix or Tron or Reboot or Wreck-it Ralph... or something.

Oh, wait, is this not about Final Fantasy?

[VeloZer0]

That no one wants to talk about. I'm going to turn the forum into my own private lair at this rate.

If it wasn't on 3DS I would be all over it.

[Jiro]

I don't have the money to pick up a 3DS even if it does have a bunch of cool titles, but Bravely Default has been a game on my radar since it was first announced.

[Fynn]

Yeah BD is on my list after I get done with Virtue's Last Reward. I realize it is kind of like a beacon of hope for JRPG enthusiasts everywhere.

That no one wants to talk about. I'm going to turn the forum into my own private lair at this rate.

Hey, I talk about it :

[Vyk]

Indeed. Flynn's been all over that game. And has been super helpful to newbies to it

I personally wouldn't be offended if the gaming budget concept finally deflated. All these mass market AAA titles I don't care about were old when they were new. I can't really respect or appreciate CoD and its clones. Though I do appreciate that Ubisoft prints money on Assassin's Creed. I don't play those games. But I'd rather they get the mass market money rather than EA or Activision. But I mostly play niche or indie games these days. It's similar to having such a huge plethora of games available and being in the PS1 or SNES era, with well-learned game mechanics, from a vast history of what works and what doesn't

Unfortunately not a lot of indie devs worry about RPGs, let alone a particular style of RPG. So, whether it will happen or not, but hopefully Atlus and its ilk (NIS and some others) lead the way. And it'll again be like SNES/PS1, where RPGs were made specifically for fans of those games. And again, they'll have decades of examples of what works and what doesn't. And won't be throwing huge amounts of money in so they don't have to be afraid of making a couple of risks and trying some new ideas and whatnot. But who really knows..

[Newmani]

Hm.

If I had a wish for the RPG market as a whole... I'd like to see better stories with less emphasis on graphical capabilities.

By better stories I don't just mean more well developed characters, or better villains, or more sensical scenarios. I mean stories that hit you like a train. Stories that blindside you and leave you standing there with your mouth open. Stories that stay with you long after you've finished playing, that you can't stop talking about because it's just that meaningful to you. I will admit, I don't really play newer games. I don't have the money or resources to do so, so I stick to the older ones cause they're more easily obtainable. But when's the last time you finished a game, went online and find the whole of the internet ablaze with how good the story was? I mean the whole idea behind an RPG is to tell a story right? I dunno about you but these days those kinds of stories, to me at least, seem to become rarer and rarer over time.

If I had another wish, I'd wish for better music. A really good soundtrack will enhance the story and make you want to download every last piece of music in the game because it's just that good. Games in general don't seem to have all that good of music anymore, but it's RPGs that require it the most. I'd love to have better music.

[Fynn]

Hm.

If I had a wish for the RPG market as a whole... I'd like to see better stories with less emphasis on graphical capabilities.

By better stories I don't just mean more well developed characters, or better villains, or more sensical scenarios. I mean stories that hit you like a train. Stories that blindside you and leave you standing there with your mouth open. Stories that stay with you long after you've finished playing, that you can't stop talking about because it's just that meaningful to you. I will admit, I don't really play newer games. I don't have the money or resources to do so, so I stick to the older ones cause they're more easily obtainable. But when's the last time you finished a game, went online and find the whole of the internet ablaze with how good the story was? I mean the whole idea behind an RPG is to tell a story right? I dunno about you but these days those kinds of stories, to me at least, seem to become rarer and rarer over time.

If I had another wish, I'd wish for better music. A really good soundtrack will enhance the story and make you want to download every last piece of music in the game because it's just that good. Games in general don't seem to have all that good of music anymore, but it's RPGs that require it the most. I'd love to have better music.

Bravely Default, Radiant Historia, Xenoblade Chronicles and heck, even the Last Story, among probably many others, all deliver in these aspects

[Newmani]

Hm.

If I had a wish for the RPG market as a whole... I'd like to see better stories with less emphasis on graphical capabilities.

By better stories I don't just mean more well developed characters, or better villains, or more sensical scenarios. I mean stories that hit you like a train. Stories that blindside you and leave you standing there with your mouth open. Stories that stay with you long after you've finished playing, that you can't stop talking about because it's just that meaningful to you. I will admit, I don't really play newer games. I don't have the money or resources to do so, so I stick to the older ones cause they're more easily obtainable. But when's the last time you finished a game, went online and find the whole of the internet ablaze with how good the story was? I mean the whole idea behind an RPG is to tell a story right? I dunno about you but these days those kinds of stories, to me at least, seem to become rarer and rarer over time.

If I had another wish, I'd wish for better music. A really good soundtrack will enhance the story and make you want to download every last piece of music in the game because it's just that good. Games in general don't seem to have all that good of music anymore, but it's RPGs that require it the most. I'd love to have better music.

Bravely Default, Radiant Historia, Xenoblade Chronicles and heck, even the Last Story, among probably many others, all deliver in these aspects

Of course that's four out of.... how many new RPGs?

[NeoCracker]

Devil Survivor 2 and Shin Megami Tensai IV, as well as Fire Emblem awakening (Even though I admit I couldn't get into it, though believe me I understand why other people did.).

This year also saw Atelier Escha and Logy, as well as the other four atelier games launched on PS3 over it's life cycle. (And the new one out this year or next.)

Really I dont' think RPG's are in near the dire straights some people seem to think it is.

[Wolf Kanno]

Devil Survivor 2 and Shin Megami Tensai IV, as well as Fire Emblem awakening (Even though I admit I couldn't get into it, though believe me I understand why other people did.).

This year also saw Atelier Escha and Logy, as well as the other four atelier games launched on PS3 over it's life cycle. (And the new one out this year or next.)

Really I dont' think RPG's are in near the dire straights some people seem to think it is.

I feel that has more to do with the genre splintering and becoming more niche. I can't say I'm excited for another Atelier or Tales of game. Yet I also understand why most people are not with me when I'm jumping for joy with the new announcement of Persona or SMT. I feel the genre has lost its strong core titles and is living mostly through the niche titles and the few big budget games that are left.

[NeoCracker]

I can't really feel like that's a bad thing though, a lack of core games that bring a huge chunk. Really that's kind of how it's always been, at least stateside. You had your FF games which garnered huge sales compared to other RPG's, (DQ games as well in Japan), and then several others with smaller fan bases, like Breath of Fire and Suikoden.

We still see big sales for FF, and for shear volume we may have more now then ever, a lot of which tailor to more specific tastes. Shin Megami Tensai, Tales, Atelier, the recent and frankly bizarre Neptunia games (Fairy Fencer F being a game coming out in the same vein), and some built on more old school principals like Bravely Default and the upcoming Citzens of Earth.

I guess I just don't really see the problem.

[Wolf Kanno]

To quote Cousin Avi from the film Snatch: Who the smurf wants to see them?

I actually consider games like BoF, Lufia, and even Suikoden to be part of the core though not as big as FF or DQ, whereas Atelier, SMT, and Agarest War really appeal to more niche parts of the RPG base largely because they make a novelty element into a core element of their games, which is why I can't say the same of some older titles because while they are niche compared to FF/DQ I don't feel they are as far removed as games that feature dating-sims, item crafting and heavy dungeon crawling as front row attractions that average RPG players are thinking to themselves is something they want to see.

Basically I feel we are seeing niche genres splintering off of niche genres which is distancing the core fans of the genre. It's why I was remarking about in the Top Five PS2 RPG that it seemed like it had the most drastic spread of games cause the core collapsed that generation and everyone made due with what they could get into.

I am not saying that these niche titles are a bad thing by themselves but it does show that the core element of the genre is not where it used to be 20 years ago and I feel that is why people are concerned about the genre as a whole because their is nothing to really anchor it like other genres have, which is why the genre is kind of being brushed back into the niche market instead of being a genre even people who don't normally play RPGs can get excited for. Atelier, Persona and Tales of, have all come a long way for their series but they still fail to be system seller like stronger franchise icons like Halo, GTA, Mario, or Civilization. The worst case scenario being that Japanese publishers will go back to the days of the 16-bit era, where only a handful of titles make it out of Japan and we'll lose out or have to go back to importing or emulating to see what we're missing out on. That's an unlikely worst case scenario but I do feel we are seeing Japanese companies being pretty hesitant to release outside of Japan or they are shifting to the cell-phone market which has broader appeal in Japan than out here.

[NeoCracker]

Honestly I feel it's only the bigger companies that seem to be afraid of releasing RPG's outside of Japan. Hell, Atlus picked up Conception 2 and saved Citzens of Earth from extinction, and we see Idea Factory!, a company who makes probably the most Niche of RPG's, having opened up a U.S. Branch just last year after most of their games seem to be financial successes for them.

I do wonder if perhaps RPG's were always destined to move towards a Niche Market like they are now anyways.

Regardless they may not be huge system sellers these days, but I don't really see a need for them to be. At least not a singe game. There are a fair number of people who make their choses based off the system that gets the most RPG's, which tends to be Sony and Hand Helds. It may not be a huge difference, but I think it's at least enough to be noteworthy.

[Skyblade]

Again, I'd like to point out: Bravely Default. The game is about as solid of a "core" RPG as you can get. It wasn't due to be released outside Japan. Square didn't think it would sell well over here, as it was designed and built for the Japanese market. Nintendo, however, thought it would be worth it, and funded the localization of the For the Sequel remake. Which then sold frelling fantastically, to the point that Square, as a company, took notice of massively unexpected profits.

There is some pretty huge untapped market potential among the core of the RPG fans, and companies are realizing it. Shin Megami Tensei, Bravely Default, and, yes, even Fire Emblem Awakening have all shown that (in fact, SMT IV and Awakening both experienced huge success, and may very well have been why Nintendo decided to port Bravely Default). The problem isn't that the games are shifting away from what they are at their core, it's that their developers haven't been making core RPGs because they've been trying to appeal to other audiences, not realizing that it was costing them their core fanbase. Square thought that their JRPG fans in America had moved on, and were looking to other genres. Bravely Default proved them wrong.

Do RPGs have more niche titles than other games? Maybe. But I've seen plenty of niche markets in other genres. Heck, even FPS games have their share of niche sub-genres, not to mention a core that is actually relatively small, if extremely lucrative.

The problem isn't that the core is gone, it's that the core, being the biggest and best selling, has been attempting to appeal to the biggest audience possible, and losing its audience because of that. The niche titles have less universal appeal, but they are at least all staying true to what the genre is. So they've continued to do well within their smaller demographic.

If we get a "Triple A" release of an actual JRPG, it will sell well. A lot of people think Final Fantasy XV will be that title (personally, I don't). But when we get one, it will revitalize JRPGs and we will see a surge of renewed interest in the core. The core fanbase is still there, and has been there. They've just been waiting for an actual JRPG that stays true to the genre without compromising it to appeal to other audiences.

Honestly, if anything, I'm reminded most of the market before the release of FFVI and FFVII. When we were given shlock like Final Fantasy Mystic Quest in an attempt to "make JRPGs that appealed to the Western gamer". Then, Square finally actually started releasing JRPGs and the market exploded. Granted, that explosion, that degree of market dominance, was simply unsustainable. But that doesn't mean that the audience had stopped liking the games. If we're ever going to get "another FFVII", now is the time. While gamers are yearning for one, whether they know it or not. While the homogenization of the market has left massive gaps in niche audiences waiting to be filled.

[Bolivar]

^ That's a very interesting comparison and I'd like to see if we do get that FFVII type shift on consoles again.

Honestly, the genre has always been niche. I'd like to compare sales for modern staples like Persona and Disgaea to past core titles like Breath of Fire or the Mana series. I expect they're not all that different. Final Fantasy still moves millions of discs and consoles and will continue to do so. I think people only feel that they've fallen off because some WRPGs came to the broader console demographic and got some attention, although the vast majority of them were undoubtedly niche (and indeed very much are in 2014). Only Skyrim was bigger than Final Fantasy but that was because it was a landmark game that transcended genre. It also eviscerated almost all of its RPG elements to become an open world action game.