Since when do gamers hate Nintendo?

[Skyblade]

Ok, so let me give you a little backstory to this. I was checking up on some professional reviews of Bravely Default yesterday, and I checked into the comments sections.

A lot of the comments in several of the reviews were universally negative, and most from people who admittedly never played the game. Those who had played either spoke positively, or cited the weak chapters later on (Chapter 6 was not strong, I freely admit that). However, the vast majority were people who just seemed to hate Nintendo. The most negative comments Square received were about how stupid they were to make the game solely available on the 3DS.

People criticized the 3DS, Nintendo as a whole, and every combination of the two I can think of.

Now, I can understand only being able to afford a single system, and disliking the fact that a great game comes out for one you don't have. I can understand not appreciating certain aspects of the 3DS design, or not liking handhelds in general. But that is not the same thing as openly criticizing and attacking the company that made it.

It's made all the worse by the fact that the only reason we could even play Bravely Default is because of Nintendo. They were the ones who ponied up the money to translate it. The localization was 100% funded by Nintendo. They had more faith in the product's potential than Square did. This isn't the first time I've seen this. There was similar hatred spewed after the Bayonetta 2 Wii U exclusive announcement. Again, a game they are a primary funder for.

What has Nintendo done to earn such ire? They've produced a ton of quality titles. Sure, there have been plenty of relatively poor cash-ins as well, but they're hardly alone in that. Admittedly, most of their first-party titles are relatively light and kid-friendly. But then they do things like support and fund projects like Bayonetta 2 and Bravely Default's localization. Heck, when Fire Emblem Awakening came out, Nintendo had issued an ultimatum that the game had to sell to a particular standard or the series would end. For most companies, that would be a death knell in itself. But Nintendo pushed Awakening hard, advertising it well and fully supporting it with E-Shop support, deals, and promotions.

Maybe I just stumbled across a particularly unhealthy selection of opinions, but I was truly dismayed to see just how much venom was being directed at the company. Are their products the absolute cutting edge of graphics and capability? No. Are their products more kid-friendly than most others? Absolutely. But is that really a good reason to loathe and despise a company with such a great history, that is making such a fantastic effort to continue to push fantastic products to this day?

I just wanted to share this a bit, because it was incredibly disheartening to see so many gamers (and so many self-declared JRPG fans) reviling a game simply because of its connection to a company that has such a long and positive history with both the genre and gaming in general.

Have you all ever seen such criticism or negativity toward Nintendo in other gaming circles (fortunately EoFF has been incredibly civil on the subject, something I never appreciated as much as I do now)?

[Yellow_Magic]

People still hate the 3DS? I swear it's been on the rise ever since last summer with the ridiculous number of A++ titles?

[Dat Matt]

One reason I think is that Nintendo's innovation with the Wii could be seen as "Selling out". It's at that point that Nintendo adopted their strategy towards the Casual market. While the market was evolving towards the more "Mature Market" (see Call of duty etc) nintendo opted for a family friendly approach to business, It turned out to be really profitable for them as the Wii Printed Money.

Currently, the Wii U and 3DS are seen as "Gimmicks" by most of the community. "Do we really need a Tablet for our game system", "do we really need 3D"? That and that Wii U, Nintendo's 8th generation console is still falling behing the competition in terms of power.

The issue with the internet is that they hate nintendo as it is not conforming to be the same as everything else at the moment. Nintendo are innovators, and sometime innovations just don't work well. The 3DS was considered a failure during it's first 2 years because it had about 3 games. Then it had about 1 title a month every month to this point and it's sold 43 million units. The Wii U has not yet to done this, and they are losing a lot of money due to poor sales. I seem to recall reading their sales forecast for the next quarter was 1 million units. This pales in comparison to the PS4 sales, despite the PS4 having basically nothing to play on it.

Nintendo will always churn out good games and I will stick with them to the end. They are just making it hard to defend the Wii U at the moment. I think things will pick up when Mario Kart 8 comes out this month. It is a game that many people will buy a Wii U to play. It's a shame it's taken them a year and a half to get to this stage though.

[Madame Adequate]

I can't say I've seen many people hating on the 3DS recently, but the reason people give Nintendo a hard time is because they've done a lot of dumb trout. The Wii was a titanic commercial success but a lot of people regard it (rightly or wrongly) as having hurt video games as a whole. What's less arguable is that Nintendo's efforts with the WiiU have been a categorical disaster. Their online setup would have been decent a decade ago, these days it's a bad joke. The company is hemorrhaging money and has little on the horizon to help them, aside from Smash and Mario Kart 8, but given past WiiU form I doubt those will move many systems.

They're also the quintessential Japanese company, so junior members can't tell Iwata that anything is wrong and the higher-ups aren't going anywhere anytime soon. Plus if criticism comes from abroad Nintendo's response is "Hahaha foolish Gaijin, they believe they know better than us!" and they carry right on assuming the West will kiss Nintendo's ass and call it ice cream.

Nintendo fundamentally failed to grasp why the Wii was a success and what implications that had for them. It was an absolutely brilliantly marketed console that brought in unbelievable numbers of people who previously would never have been considered major video game demographics. The flip side of that is - and I'll toot my own horn and point out that I was saying this years and years ago - that these people are not serious or hardcore gamers. I don't mean that as an insult or anything, it's just a facet of their behavior as consumers. A Wii is a thing they bought because they liked that particular product, because the Wii specifically had stuff they wanted. We're used to the console cycle where we get new systems every few years, but to Soccer Mom and Random Grandma they've got a Wii, why would they want or need anything else? And they have no more loyalty to Nintendo than they do to whoever made their TV anyway, these are not people who will go out and buy a Nintendo product because of the name. Or for that matter people who will buy a console of any kind because in the future it will have a worthwhile library.

Nintendo assumed all these new customers would just naturally upgrade to the WiiU because that's what everyone else has done since the NES days, whereas that's not the case at all. Also not helped by the name, which is pretty much a total disaster that, to the layperson, gives no information about what the product actually is.

e; Also as Mr. Shauna points out the WiiU can barely match last generation's power, and Nintendo is notorious for being very unhelpful towards 3rd party devs. They have a very strong attitude that others should be honored to make games for Nintendo systems, and have never made the effort to court others or ensure consoles are convenient for them. Some have been, but it's by coincidence rather than design, and the WiiU certainly isn't one people like developing for. Between the power shortfall, development difficulty, and the lack of customers nobody's much interested in porting games to the WiiU.

[Dat Matt]

One thing I've found interesting with games is that the Wii U versions of games are either getting Cancelled or Postponed and are usually inferior versions. Just for some examples (First one is bad) The Wii U version of Aliens Colonial Marines was scrapped before launch based on the poor quality of the released product. Games such as Watch Dogs, Rayman Legends, Lego Hobbit have all been delayed on the Wii U version, Rayman Legends Especially causing controversy. Makes you think there is a conspiracy theory surrounding these games.

Of the games for the Wii U coming out, I know of the following:

Mario Kart 8, Smash 4, Hyrule Warriors, Bayonetta 2, X, SMT vs Fire Emblem... I think that's it in terms of announced games for the Wii U. That's all we have to get exceited for except more than likely another sodding Mario game at the end of the year. Nintendo need to win back the Hardcore fans now. They Need Metroid, F-Zero, Starfox basicaly all those franchises that fell by the wayside in the last generation when they focused on the "Wider Audience"

With the way console gaming is going, PC gaming is stepping up to be the next stage in development. PC gaming is becomong more afordable and provides better results and games for cheaper than consoles. Titanfall, XB1's big exclusive so far was also on PC and 360. Why bother with the XB1 when you already have a better platform to play exclusives on?

Nintendo will live and die by it's franchises, and they will never port it anywhere but their own consoles. That's why they would be rolling in dough if they'd just push the games out.

[Dr Unne]

Pretty sure gamers hate everything.

[Madame Adequate]

One thing I've found interesting with games is that the Wii U versions of games are either getting Cancelled or Postponed and are usually inferior versions. Just for some examples (First one is bad) The Wii U version of Aliens Colonial Marines was scrapped before launch based on the poor quality of the released product. Games such as Watch Dogs, Rayman Legends, Lego Hobbit have all been delayed on the Wii U version, Rayman Legends Especially causing controversy. Makes you think there is a conspiracy theory surrounding these games.

The conspiracy is that the WiiU is a bad playform for devs and most of them can't be bothered. Ubisoft feel they owe Nintendo because one of their Rayman games did complete gangbusters awhile back, but it seems like they're trying to get out of making WiiU games too.

Mario Kart 8, Smash 4, Hyrule Warriors, Bayonetta 2, X, SMT vs Fire Emblem... I think that's it in terms of announced games for the Wii U. That's all we have to get exceited for except more than likely another sodding Mario game at the end of the year. Nintendo need to win back the Hardcore fans now. They Need Metroid, F-Zero, Starfox basicaly all those franchises that fell by the wayside in the last generation when they focused on the "Wider Audience"

Yeah, of those only the first two have any chance of being significant system movers. Nintendo aren't selling because they've got nothing, and they've got nothing because they're not selling. Vicious circle. The real problem is they can't roll out a new console anytime soon either because then all the people who did adopt the WiiU are going to be even more pissed.

[Slothy]

Nintendo fundamentally failed to grasp why the Wii was a success and what implications that had for them. It was an absolutely brilliantly marketed console that brought in unbelievable numbers of people who previously would never have been considered major video game demographics. The flip side of that is - and I'll toot my own horn and point out that I was saying this years and years ago - that these people are not serious or hardcore gamers. I don't mean that as an insult or anything, it's just a facet of their behavior as consumers. A Wii is a thing they bought because they liked that particular product, because the Wii specifically had stuff they wanted. We're used to the console cycle where we get new systems every few years, but to Soccer Mom and Random Grandma they've got a Wii, why would they want or need anything else? And they have no more loyalty to Nintendo than they do to whoever made their TV anyway, these are not people who will go out and buy a Nintendo product because of the name. Or for that matter people who will buy a console of any kind because in the future it will have a worthwhile library.

I honestly think the problem the Wii U has been running into runs a bit deeper than the fact that soccer moms and grandparents don't care about getting caught up in the console release cycle.

The Wii was a casual system released at a time where motion controls seemed novel to the casual gamer, and tablets weren't even a thing and smartphones that didn't suck were only just on the horizon (the iPhone wouldn't land until more than six months after the Wii came out, and let's face it, no one gave a trout about smartphones before that). So basically, it was a casual console with a gimmick that drew in people who weren't traditionally gamers, and the most competition it had was from things like browser based games for the most part.

Being unique in a market with almost no competition is a pretty good thing to be. Too bad the casual gamers who bought the Wii (such as my parents for one) have smartphones and tablets and haven't powered up their Wii's in months, if not years. And the Wii U is stuck in the awkward position of the new gimmick being a tablet in the controller, having power the Wii's audience didn't care about, not enough power for the people interested in next-gen consoles and PC games (or third party's for that matter, which is the traditional Nintendo problem), and it's also burdened with a name that is just stupidly confusing to any non-gamers who might care.

Honestly, when I look at the Wii U, I can't help but see a Nintendo as a company who didn't seem to understand why the Wii was such a success, and had no idea how to build a follow up console. But the DS and tablets are popular. Might as well stick a touchscreen on the controller.

It's a shame really. I've been extremely critical of Nintendo for years now for a variety of reasons. Chief among them being that they spent too much time rehashing their N64 greatest hits, and they made a console I had no interest in with the Wii. But I'd really like to see them get their trout together and turn this stuff around. I just worry they may be a bit too set in their ways for any sort of shakeup that they could really use to be a realistic possibility.

[DMKA]

It's not just Nintendo, this happens to Sony and Microsoft too. It all depends on where you go. Go to NeoGAF for example, and you'll see intense levels of Microsoft hatred. Go to 4chan's /v/ and you'll see unwavering Sony hatred. Go to Rock Paper Shotgun, and you'll see plenty of hatred for all three.

One thing all fanboys have in common: they love to hate on everyone else while apologizing for their favorite company's screw ups.

[Pumpkin]

It may be because of the Zelda forums I'm on but I've seen a large number of people who love them some Nintendo

[Dat Matt]

Zelda forums will have a love for Nintendo like EoFF has a love for square enix.

/r/Nintendo on reddit is bad for it too. There is 3 types of comment there; "news and questions", mainly why I go there; "Stop bashing Nintendo, they are doing fine" comments", and "5 ways nintendo can save the Wii u" posts. I especially hate those that say Nintendo can sit on their cash reserves and accept the Wii u as a commercial failure, the money will run out eventually.

[Del Murder]

Pretty sure gamers hate everything.

Bingo.

The WiiU seems like it sucks, but I've never played it, because it doesn't yet have that marquee Zelda, Mario, or Metroid title that gets people to flock to their systems (3D World won't be enough for me). Nintendo's strength has always been its first party games and as long as they stick to focusing on those then they should be ok.

3DS is great though and I'm not sure why anyone is bashing it at this point. If Nintendo went to a handheld-only model while making the occasional third party console game then I wouldn't be too bothered.

[Dat Matt]

Super Mario 3D world is a really good game. The issue with it is, it's just another Mario game. Mario has become a yearly release with either a 2D or 3D Mario coming out late each year. The are usually still good games, but don't vary enough game to game to be new.

Of the games I have for the Wii U. The Wonderful 101 which is a new IP and Pikmin 3 are the ones I am most interested in. Because it's a new IP, and a game that was not in the last generation getting a sequel. I'll get to playing them soon. Things like Wind Waker HD while I'm glad was ported to the Wii U, can still be played on the Wii if you have an old enough model with backwards compatibility.

I'll wait until E3. I need something to get excited about on the Wii U. Zelda U will probably be announched, but we need more than that.

[Del Murder]

I'm sure Mario 3D World is a must own if you have a WiiU but it's not a system seller on its own.

I also agree with others that the name of the system certainly didn't help its credibility.

[Dat Matt]

For the first 6 months, I wasn't aware it was a new console. I just knew it was a tablet. It was only after seeing the full console advertised in game stores that it clicked it was a new console.

Mario 3D World is a must own, and it is a great 4 player game in it's own right. The game varies from it's 3DS counterpart in that "New Game +" for the game isn't running through the game again as Luigi, but opens up 4 special worlds to work through. More challenging versions of previous levels such at "Speedrun this level with 30 seconds on the clock". This also opens up the 5th playable characterRosalina, and she just helps to break the game, it's amazing how I played the entire game without her.