why darth vader bad whyyy whyyyyy he was so sweet whyyyyyy. wot appened u changed man

[Alive-Cat]

The screen is so bright it hurts me

I know it's stupid nitpicking really, and there isn't really a point in this thread but maybe someone has some crazy piece of knowledge that will illuminate my life.

When you really think about it, watching the prequels and such, I just don't see how Anakin turned into Darth Vader. (I know visually he did that was great stuff)

But

He's painted as a smurfing saint. The best person you could ever know in your life. Even in his adolescent years his worst trait is a bad temper. Heck, if a group of aliens had my mother tied up and had been torturing her and she died, I would of reacted the exact same way.

The only real sort of reason why he became Darth Vader was basically that, he had went too far. He'd killed younglings (hahahaha the word younglings,) he'd killed other Jedis and then he believed that he had been the one who had killed Padme.

BUT

His portrayal throughout the prequels, I just think, at some point, being the absolute amazing guy he is, he would of still had a change of heart at some point. Or not even bothered, after finding out he'd killed Padme he could of given up everything then. I don't think it would of took all the way to Return of the Jedi and his son to convince him of what was right, from the image of his personality we have been given.

I guess factors are, using the Dark Side inclines you towards evil anyway? I think that's probably the strongest argument. But yeah. Always seemed a stretch, so to speak.

I think the even stronger argument is, he went evil because it's a film and these reasons are enough

Plus we don't know what was going on in his head all throughout his life. He could of always been a bit craaaaazy. Maybe they could of went a bit further into his pysche growing up?

Thoughts?

[Newmani]

He never really was all that good a person. A lot of the reason he fell had to do with his ambitions and selfishness. Though he was good there was always a part of him vulnerable to darkness, and once Sideous got to that part... boom. Face-heel turn.

There's a huge rift between how he was portrayed in the prequels and how he was portrayed in the original trilogy though. In episodes IV-VI the good part of him we saw was a lot different from the good part of him we saw in the prequels. Of course the prequels are mostly handwave-y bullcrap anyway....

[Alive-Cat]

I think though, and I've always been a champion of the prequels...I've just decided the first thing I don't really like about them. They should of explained his character more. They obviously should have, seeing as me and you have gotten completely different ideas of him!

[Newmani]

I think though, and I've always been a champion of the prequels...I've just decided the first thing I don't really like about them. They should of explained his character more. They obviously should have, seeing as me and you have gotten completely different ideas of him!

That they should. He never really got a lot of characterization beyond "he's that guy who becomes Darth Vader, like him until he goes bad". We don't know what his personality is. Heck he got more characterization in the original trilogy than he did in the prequels, which were supposed to be all about him!

[chionos]

Oh man, I just had an epiphany.

It's all metafictional, the prequels, the actors they chose, all of it.

We, the audience, were afraid the prequels were going to suck. We were angry they were making them at all. We hated the movies. Everyone suffered.

Little Anakin is a piss-ant, and teenage Anakin is an annoying emo loser, because Lucas wanted us as an audience to channel all of our hate into the character. WE made Darth Vader. He is the culmination of an entire generation (ours) becoming more and more dissatisfied and angry. He is a projection of our collective angst. We hate little Anakin. That's where big Anakin got his power.

[Alive-Cat]

Oh man, I just had an epiphany.

It's all metafictional, the prequels, the actors they chose, all of it.

We, the audience, were afraid the prequels were going to suck. We were angry they were making them at all. We hated the movies. Everyone suffered.

Little Anakin is a piss-ant, and teenage Anakin is an annoying emo loser, because Lucas wanted us as an audience to channel all of our hate into the character. WE made Darth Vader. He is the culmination of an entire generation (ours) becoming more and more dissatisfied and angry. He is a projection of our collective angst. We hate little Anakin. That's where big Anakin got his power.

First post on the Eyes On Final Fantasy Forums Experience I have been jealous of and wanted as my own.

Touché, chionos, touché.

[Newmani]

Oh man, I just had an epiphany.

It's all metafictional, the prequels, the actors they chose, all of it.

We, the audience, were afraid the prequels were going to suck. We were angry they were making them at all. We hated the movies. Everyone suffered.

Little Anakin is a piss-ant, and teenage Anakin is an annoying emo loser, because Lucas wanted us as an audience to channel all of our hate into the character. WE made Darth Vader. He is the culmination of an entire generation (ours) becoming more and more dissatisfied and angry. He is a projection of our collective angst. We hate little Anakin. That's where big Anakin got his power.

So Anakin being a jerk and annoying was a take that at us for disliking the prequels?

I just think George Lucas lost his touch. The prequels were like bad fanfiction. There were plot holes galore, voodoo sharks all over the place, and Anakin hardly had any character whatsoever pre-Vader. And the scenarios were awful. It was all about politics up until he turned.

[Alive-Cat]

Oh yeah, someone enlighten me as to how he finds out he has children?

Obviously at first he thinks he killed Padme and the baby (cause he dun know twins)

How does he find out Luke is his kid? And doesn't he then think, 'wait, I must not have killed Padme. Emporer you lied to me man'

How does he know?

I apologise if there is something obvious I don't know. I just like these movies, I'm not massively way into the finer details.

[Newmani]

Oh yeah, someone enlighten me as to how he finds out he has children?

Obviously at first he thinks he killed Padme and the baby (cause he dun know twins)

How does he find out Luke is his kid? And doesn't he then think, 'wait, I must not have killed Padme. Emporer you lied to me man'

How does he know?

I apologise if there is something obvious I don't know. I just like these movies, I'm not massively way into the finer details.

In the original version he both senses it in him and Sideous outright tells him about it.

[Alive-Cat]

Oh yeah, someone enlighten me as to how he finds out he has children?

Obviously at first he thinks he killed Padme and the baby (cause he dun know twins)

How does he find out Luke is his kid? And doesn't he then think, 'wait, I must not have killed Padmeeeeeeee. Emporer you lied to me man'

How does he know?

I apologise if there is something obvious I don't know. I just like these movies, I'm not massively way into the finer details.

In the original version he both senses it in him and Sideous outright tells him about it.

Really? I neevverrrr remember Sideous telling him about it. Or maybe I was too young to understand. Although I've watched them since. I don't know I will look into this on youtube tomorrow and find the scene.

But, doesn't Anakin then think 'gosh emporer you lied to me i didn't kill padme'

I guessed he sensed it. Though at the same time, I always think, why didn't he always sense it? Surely he would have felt that somewhere in the galaxy his son of all people existed. If his Force was so strong?

[Newmani]

Oh yeah, someone enlighten me as to how he finds out he has children?

Obviously at first he thinks he killed Padme and the baby (cause he dun know twins)

How does he find out Luke is his kid? And doesn't he then think, 'wait, I must not have killed Padmeeeeeeee. Emporer you lied to me man'

How does he know?

I apologise if there is something obvious I don't know. I just like these movies, I'm not massively way into the finer details.

In the original version he both senses it in him and Sideous outright tells him about it.

Really? I neevverrrr remember Sideous telling him about it. Or maybe I was too young to understand. Although I've watched them since. I don't know I will look into this on youtube tomorrow and find the scene.

But, doesn't Anakin then think 'gosh emporer you lied to me i didn't kill padme'

I guessed he sensed it. Though at the same time, I always think, why didn't he always sense it? Surely he would have felt that somewhere in the galaxy his son of all people existed. If his Force was so strong?

Darth Vader at that point in time was fully engulfed by the Dark Side. When he hears he doesn't really care that the information was held from him, or that his son was actually still alive. He just wanted him converted or dead as per his master's wishes. It wasn't until later that it slowly hits him.

As for your second question, he might have just doubted it. After all, up until he was told, he thought his child was dead. He may have dismissed it partially, though he may have had doubts about whether his son was actually dead.

[Alive-Cat]

Yeah man, like I said at the start of the thread, I'm not really a nitpicky person and this isn't actually something I mind about. I agree with you

[Newmani]

Yeah man, like I said at the start of the thread, I'm not really a nitpicky person and this isn't actually something I mind about. I agree with you

Yeah, after all the plot holes in the original weren't nearly as bad as they were in the prequels.

But in terms of bad characterization, I honestly think Padme's even worse. At the end of the third movie she dies according to official sources because "she lost the will to live." Yeah, I'll just lay here and die, because I lost my husband to the Dark Side and these children mean NOTHING to me. :P

[Mirage]

that's george lucas' idea of love and romance for you

[fire_of_avalon]

But in terms of bad characterization, I honestly think Padme's even worse. At the end of the third movie she dies according to official sources because "she lost the will to live." Yeah, I'll just lay here and die, because I lost my husband to the Dark Side and these children mean NOTHING to me. :P

That I think was the worst crime of the prequels. Padme was an amazing character. She ruled a planet when she was a teenager, she employed body doubles so she could gather her own information, she fought off a crapload of monsters during an assassination attempt against her, she represented and fought for the ideals of the voiceless and the oppressed in a huge senate, was respected beyond measure and kept the needs of her people every present.

Then she died of a broken heart?