No Final Fantasy XV at E3 this year

[Ouch!]

Valve gave the fans an unfinished narrative. They reneged on something they started. Fans have to take responsibility but I don't think those situations are in any way comparable.

EDIT: I'm not entirely sure I make a lot of sense and Half-Life is a series I'm mostly unfamiliar with but, yeah, Valve didn't release Episode 3 so they're exactly the same kind of lying bastards that caused the hype train one way or another.

I don't see how the two situations are anything other than... exactly compatible? Both Kingdom Hearts and Half-Life are both unfinished narratives. The only difference is that one company confirmed a sequel so early in the development cycle that they've got trout all else to say while the other has just decided to say nothing. To describe them as "lying bastards" just reeks for fan entitlement.

As for Wolf Kanno's points, I can totally sympathize. It definitely sucks to see a game slowly become vaporware due to unexpected and (relatively) unexplained delays, and I can also understand why confidence is shaken in their success. Shying away from a day one purchase is an entirely reasonable response.

My question to both of you is this, though: at this point, with all of that behind us, what do you expect Square Enix to do differently? When it comes down to it, fact of the matter is that these delays have happened. From a marketing perspective, does giving us news now if it's really not the best time to do so really make the situation better? In the case of Kingdom Hearts 3 specifically, is it really beneficial for them to start showing us alpha or maybe even pre-alpha builds? Has that ever resulted in anything other than disappointment later? Even FFXIV: ARR, which has been incredibly successful from a marketing and customer relations standpoint did not widely start sharing information until we were into open beta. KH3 doesn't have the luxury of engaging its fans in pre-beta stages, and if they start making promises on content that isn't finalized, they run the risk of making the problem worse.

Obviously Square Enix has mismanaged a lot of its titles over the past decade. Final Fantasy XIII was the first in the series that I sold back as soon as it was completed, and I never even bothered to pick up either of its sequels. Final Fantasy XIV was virtually unplayable when I bought the collector's edition at launch, and it took over a year and praise from a lot of people whose opinions I really trust to make me head back and give it a try again.

I'm not arguing that Square Enix hasn't damaged their brand (they clearly have); I'm just saying that from the developer's perspective, releasing too much information now runs too high a risk of damaging that brand further. As much as it sucks, if they're not ready to reveal things, it's probably better that they don't.

[Wolf Kanno]

My general feeling Ouch! is that SE should not have bothered with releasing any info on KHIII. They should not have even started the hype train until it was well on its way to full production, don't tell me you're going to give me the moon when you don't even have the blueprints for the rocket finished yet, they are in essence making the same mistake they did with Versus XIII. I mean we were told by Nomura himself that KHIII wasn't going to really start until after XV was released and the moment they showed that obvious demo trailer, we started getting fans talking about how it is coming out next year when that couldn't be farther from the truth.

Let's face it, SE should not try to announce titles unless they are going to do it like most other companies who usually announce their games when they are a year away from actually being released as opposed to announcing a game with a cool thirty second concept trailer cause only the basic idea has been sketched out. Basically, someone over at SE needs to stop posting the concept videos used to sell the idea to the higher ups onto YouTube afterwards. I'd rather be floored out of nowhere than spending ten years waiting for a game that may not come.

The other issue here is that I just wish SE had been a bit more honest with us about details of the game. We got a bit when XIII was entering post-production and they mentioned they syphoning some of the XV team to help and we were told XIV caused a wave of financial issues that affected the game but we're still talking about a few select moments. I already can guess that they built a new engine from scratch that is capable of doing stuff we've never really seen the series do before, the devil is in the details of the recent trailer but it would have been nice to be given a heads up that the new game engine was taking longer to build cause it had to be made from scratch cause nothing like it existed at the time. The same deal happened with XII, we as fans can understand this. I don't think we would have bitched as much if the team leaked out choice information to calm our fears. Announcing a game and then acting like it doesn't exist for several years is what causes all the nasty rumors and worries to begin with. They wouldn't have had to try and quell rumors of the game's cancellation a few years back if they had just been more forthright with information, even when they said it wasn't cancelled they simply said so and the president of the company said at the time that his closed doors preview of the city was impressive, they could have at least released some screenshots of this to quell the fans fears but instead it was just the same speech as always.

What I want from SE concerning XV at this point is for them to start throwing me some more bones. How far along is the game? I mean is it in post-production with the team tidying up the various lighting and graphics engines and play testing or do they still need to start building the last ten hours of the game from scratch? Show us some screenshots or concept art every few months instead of every few years. Start talking about things the game is going to do for us to look forward to besides realistic lighting and realistic weather patters cause right now that is stuff a lot of people have already pulled off in the time they've been dicking around with it. Let's get a few more tidbits of the characters and plot instead of out of context cutscenes and grainy film from secret footage stolen out of the closed door meetings concerning it. They are obviously going to do all this in the few months leading to it's release but they could honestly start doing it now if it is carefully planned out enough not to ruin the surprises of the team. Course that is under the assumption the game is 12 to 18 months away from completion which if it isn't then maybe give us some background info. Show us happy pictures of the development team hard at work, just give me the impression this is a priority and that I will want it when it comes out after losing interest cause the company has been screwing around for the last console cycle.

This game has the potential to be really awesome, start making me want to care again. SE needs to focus on trying to win back the fans who have been discouraged by their mismanagement. They did with XIV so why can't they do it with XV?

[Jiro]

I don't see how the two situations are anything other than... exactly compatible? Both Kingdom Hearts and Half-Life are both unfinished narratives. The only difference is that one company confirmed a sequel so early in the development cycle that they've got trout all else to say while the other has just decided to say nothing. To describe them as "lying bastards" just reeks for fan entitlement.

Yeah, it was like 3am and I wasn't sure the words I was writing carried my point across. Clearly I smurfed up I was trying to point out that Final Fantasy XV, Kingdom Hearts III, and Half-Life 3 were not at all in keeping with your point about fan-made hype trains.

My question to both of you is this, though: at this point, with all of that behind us, what do you expect Square Enix to do differently?

Once you starting releasing details, you have to keep the public informed. I don't mean releasing 500 trailers that effectively tell you everything that happens a la Lightning Returns. I mean, you're going to perhaps the biggest gaming conference in the world and you're not being upfront with how much progress you've made in your two primary titles. It doesn't need to be centre stage, but you have all the world watching. As much as I've criticised the announcing an announcement habit, actually telling us to expect more at TGS would go a long way to demonstrating that they haven't forgotten and that they still care. We need to be kept in the loop even more now that they have disappointed fans.

[Sephiroth]

Probably we get an announcement for Final Fantasy XVI Online.

(I hope not. Please release Final Fantasy XV.)

[Wolf Kanno]

No FFXVI is obviously going to be a free to play browser based game with tone of paid extras.

[Sephiroth]

Which would mean it is online as I said.

[Ayen]

You're both wrong. It's going to be a mobile game.

[FFFFsephychibi]

[QUOTE=Aulayna;3427997]

Edit: I really hope we get an FFXII HD Remaster announcement!

I hope they will annouce that too, BUT after a release date is set for ff15, I will cry if another game gets in it's way of being released.

In relation to this topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5GZj9sWPkY

Well considering they outsourced the remasters of X/X-2 and had a seperate office working on KH1.5/2.5 - a HD remaster of XII won't exactly "get in the way"

Honestly it doesn't seem like it really matters how much they outsource and the amount of teams they have, 8+ and counting games have been announced, prioritized, and shipped since 15's 2006 announcement. That is what I mean by 'get in the way'

I get Square Enix is big and to me it seems like they have terrible management. final fantasy 13,13-2, 13-3, 10 hd, kh 1.5 and 2.5.... birth by sleep, dream drop distance, the 2 ds kh games. bravely default and theatrhythm, 2 dissidias.... crisis core.... multiple final fantasy ports, and 2 ff14 games in it's dev time as well.... and i know im still missing a lot of games here.

To clarify one last time what 'get in the way' means: Another game getting revealed and released and we still don't have a solid clue when we will get ff15, 8 years later.

Sorry just trying to defend my point

[Del Murder]

Like WK all I really want is some honesty. To be told exactly where the game is in development and how long they expect it to take. They don't have to throw up a booth at E3 or put out a bunch of trailers, but something other than reminding us the game exists would really go a long way to show that they care about their fans and not just their bottom line.

[Ouch!]

I'd agree on confirmation as to where in development the game is, but I'd understand shying away from any confirmation of how long they expect it to take. Anything said is likely to be taken as gospel; better to undersell than to over-promise, especially when dealing with a fanbase as fickle as gamers.

[Jiro]

I'd agree on confirmation as to where in development the game is, but I'd understand shying away from any confirmation of how long they expect it to take. Anything said is likely to be taken as gospel; better to undersell than to over-promise, especially when dealing with a fanbase as fickle as gamers.

We think it's going to be released in Q4 2015, but game development can be full of unexpected delays. We hope that everything will run smoothly from here so you can enjoy Final Fantasy XV as soon as possible, but we will update you with our expected release dates as we proceed.

If fans somehow take issue with this then they are the self-entitled pricks that nobody cares about anyway. I don't see how being upfront and honest is a bad thing. We know games take a while to release. But having Square Enix just pretend that nothing is wrong and suddenly the game is not being talked about because... well it could be anything. It could be vapourware. We need to know these things so we can channel our energy constructively. Fans spent their time demanding to know if it was vapourware or not and then when it was finally confirmed as still in development for maybe sometime this decade, everyone was too tired of complaining to actually want to support it and celebrate it.

[Loony BoB]

I think something we can all agree on is that SE just need to speed up their development in general . I feel SE get a short straw in this regard because they love to innovate so much, which means a lot of bugs and failed ideas compared to, say, Let's Make Another Game Just Like The Earlier One which most devs go for. But even then, five years is enough. Hell, CoD devs these days can get a game out every two years. Maybe announce games much later in the development cycle to avoid issues.

[BustaMo]

I think back to how SquareSOFT was putting games out at most every 2 years. Sure the PS1 and NES games back then were less graphically gifted and simpler, but with the technology now, there's no reason games should be taking 5-6 years between main installment games in this series. There are a TON of Final Fanasy fans world-wide, and somehow Square-Enix makes it sound like they are nearly broke after every release of a game. Maybe that's true, but something needs to change to spice up the series and keep us die-hards thirsting for more.

Hopefully Tokyo Game Show later this year has something for us to chew on and hope for in the next 2 years.

[Dark_Valentine]

What makes this even worse are rumours of something new, "not a game", that's related to Lightning. What could it be?

The two big rumors going around is that it's either (SPOILER)that they're going to announce her role in Final Fantasy XV as a guest character or....this.

If either turn out to be true, I'm convinced Kitase and friends just love seeing fan outrage and are keeping Lightning revelant for the lulz.

I love Final Fantasy but if the first rumor is true, so help me I will never play another final fantasy until they remake VII...I have been waiting for this game for too long. Lightning's story is complete, there's no reason to include her in another game, especially after they separated it from the XIII franchise. I'm slowly losing my love for Square =/ They need to come out with this game soon, even if it's next year, so that players don't completely lose all hope in them. Pushing it back to 2016 will be the death of them.

[Aulayna]

What makes this even worse are rumours of something new, "not a game", that's related to Lightning. What could it be?

The two big rumors going around is that it's either (SPOILER)that they're going to announce her role in Final Fantasy XV as a guest character or....this.

If either turn out to be true, I'm convinced Kitase and friends just love seeing fan outrage and are keeping Lightning revelant for the lulz.

I love Final Fantasy but if the first rumor is true, so help me I will never play another final fantasy until they remake VII...I have been waiting for this game for too long. Lightning's story is complete, there's no reason to include her in another game, especially after they separated it from the XIII franchise. I'm slowly losing my love for Square =/ They need to come out with this game soon, even if it's next year, so that players don't completely lose all hope in them. Pushing it back to 2016 will be the death of them.

Worry not then.

The rumored Lightning thing turned out to be a series of XIII based novels that are only being released in Japan.