Quote Originally Posted by Skyblade View Post

What danger are they in? Do you think Marche could explain what was wrong with staying in Ivalice to any of them? Heck, is there anything wrong with staying in Ivalice for anyone but Mewt? It's not exactly refusing to face reality when reality itself has been completely rewritten.
They are running away from their problems, isn't that trouble enough, how can they ever grow strong in character if when life makes things difficult for them they simply choose the easiest option to get out of it that requires some outside force to help them. You can't get anywhere in life if you choose a world where you can't face your problem. Ivalice isn't just Mewt's dream to run away it's everyones. Not to mention that they gain their goals by wiping out the lives of people were living in their home town, or brainwashing parental figures to fit your ideals for them cause you are too embarrassed to face them or accept them. I mean everyone but Marche is actually being selfish here since they would rather rewrite reality to be their paradise rather than face their lives. We all have issues in our lives that we don't want to deal with but growing up is about facing those problems, picking ourselves up when we fail, and shouldering on in good or bad. It is a much more fulfilling existence than hedonism. The whole point of the story is understanding this.

Yes, heaven forbid we have a character in a game who isn't just an asshole for the sake of being an asshole.
He's boring and prediuctable. I felt like I was watching a Saturday moning cartoon show which have those cheesy moral lesson scenes at the end. Anytime something was in trouble he would sidestep his quest to help out. The best part about the game was discovering that he doomed the world in the end because he never stopped to really ask anyone about the history of Alchemy and instead just did as he was told.

Is there anything wrong with wanting to help people out? With attempting to do a little more than just laugh at the misfortune of others as you walk by? With carrying power far beyond that of 99% of the world's population and actually suint that power to make a difference where you can?
There is nothing wrong with being good, I just prefer characterization with it. Marche does what he must because he is trying to save his home and his friends, Ramza fights the cause of the war because he witnesses first hand its horrors in the early chapters. The main characters of all the Suikoden games are inspired to save their homes because of loss, national pride, or to end suffering they have seen first hand.

Isaac? Is a nice kid who was in the wrong place, gets orderd to save the world and does it. Where his raison d'etre? To give this a Final Fantasy spin, Cecil vs. Bartz, Bartz goes along with saving the world because he's a nice guy who was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and ultimately resigns himself to destiny due to a late game plot revelation that his father was a Dawn Warrior. His reasoning is shallow. Cecil did some bad things and it was his cowardice and in ability to stand up to his beliefs that led to suffering. He is compelled to do good because he no longer wants to be the man he was yesterday. His desire is manifested with his class change to Paladin and even though he fails he always picks himself back up and goes on. It is far more inspiring than Bartz. We strive to be Bartz but we all know we're more like Cecil, we all have a moment in our lives where we faltered to weakness instead of taking the high road.


So just because you are a complete ass who feels no compassion for others and no reason to help when you can, that makes those who do bad characters? I'm apparently not human because I enjoy helping people. I go out of my way to assist those in trouble, to carry burdens, help people get around, etcetera. And if I was one of only dozens of people in the world capable of using magic, I'd do a hell of a lot more.
That's a little uncalled for, you fail to try and understand my perspective. I simply need to understand where the character is coming from. Doing good for selfish reasons is not inherently wrong, maybe people do good because we enjoy it and it makes us feel good which itself is enough of a reason. Selfishness is not a bad trait in small doses and like Thomas Hobbes, I feel it is the basis for all morality.

Basically the issue I have here is that writing a traditionally morally good character is too easy. They are just like that and there is no reason needed to understand them. An asshole is different, we always find out why they are the way they are and most of the times events in the story will lead them back to being a bit of a more nice guy. There is nowhere to grow for upstanding people. It's why most people prefer the second Golden Sun game cause Felix is a more complex hero willing to side with some unsavory people to save the world whereas Isaac is pretty much a flat character overall. You can write a compelling morally righteous character (see Cecil, Ramza, Marche, etc...) but I often find most writers are lazy with these type of characters which is why I don't feel many RPG fans like myself enjoy them.