What do you want out of an RPG protagonist?

[Skyblade]

They didn't exactly choose to rewrite reality. It just sort of happened around them. If you suddenly woke up in paradise, would you honestly try to stop and figure out how to get back to the real world?

I'd be like Marche and highly suspicious, if I got a mysterious check in the mail for a ton of money I'd hold onto it until it's real owner showed up, not cash it in cause I think someone out there likes me.

They had no real way of knowing what happened. They certainly had no way of knowing that it had a cost to others (if indeed it did). Marche could very easily be the one refusing to face the fact that reality is simply not as stable as we might like to believe, at least early on in the story.

True, but the player knows because we saw that the new Ivalice overwrote the real reality and we saw that Mewt's dream world had forced Cid's will to bend to Mewt's desire. Once Marche confronts all of them about the state of the world, all of them choose to reject it to fulfill there own desires.

For me the main reason to understand that Dream Ivalice is false is because Montblanc and his entire Clan willingly help Marche with his goal, which tells me one of two things: a) Montblanc and by extension the people of Dream Ivalice are somewhat aware that their world is not the right reality, b) Montblanc, like Judgemaster Cid is compelled against his will by Marche's wishes to go home.

Or Montblanc, like most people, see someone confused and in trouble and just want to help them.

Also, Marche doesn't have access to player knowledge. Everything happened while he was asleep. So what the player knows is irrelevant (and, as I pointed out, the transition scene itself is incredibly deceptive). What's more, Marche doesn't confront anyone else about the world. Ritz confronts Marche about the world, and her suspicion that it's based on their town.

You think Isaac is boring because he helps people. I find it pleasantly refreshing amongst all the psychotic jerks in the gaming industries these days. I find the "edgy dark antihero" trope that is dominating the market to be far more boring.

There are tons of reasons for Isaac to help people. Heck, he's basically an ambassador of magic to people who are completely mundane. And he's following in the footsteps of some magicians who go around absolutely destroying everything they come across. It's like someone following Magneto and trying to convince people that all mutants aren't bad. Maybe helping rescue some livelihoods will help.

He is boring cause we get no real background of who he is. He's a nice kid with special powers trying to save the world. Let's compare him to Ryu from Breath of Fire II, who grew up with a caring father, a missing mother, a loving sister, one day wakes up to find they are all gone and is told they never existed. He teams up with a selfish but friendly orphan and the two escape his hometown and live their lives scraping for survival before the game opens up again to show they both grew up to be Rangers, people who help other people, they wish to do this cause their lives had been of one of hardship. Ryu also never speaks, he is also a silent protagonist but we get enough of a backstory to really understand where he is coming from, his relationship with his friend Bow and how they interact really show that Ryu is the compassionate but lawful good hero who often has to bail his friend out of trouble. He never talks, hell you barely get any choices to make for him, and yet he's a really kind and wonderful person. Ryu's kindness is forged by his personal struggles and the kindness he had shown to him. That is why he's a good person, he is not good for the sake of being good he is good cause he knows it is the right thing to do because his past and relations define him. Isaac doesn't have that, he could be any kid from that village for as much depth was given to him to justify who he is as a character.

Um, we find out a ton about Isaac's background. All you have to do is actually pay attention and talk to the NPCs (and Mind Read them). You get a clear understanding of Vale, it's culture, what it values, Dora's perceptions, etcetera. It's pretty easy to understand what sort of culture/family Isaac grew up in and how that shaped him.

Isaac is a silent protagonist. We don't get to see a lot of direct characterization. That's why I actually adore the way the two games demonstrate characterization. Neither Isaac nor Felix speak in their respective games. Yet you can still get a great insight into what sort of people they are, where they place their priorities, and what they value just from how the games play out. For being a silent protagonist, you get a surprising amount of depth in Isaac's character.

I feel Persona 2, Suikoden II/Tactics, and Arc the Lad 2 handled it better. Just my opinion.

Another game doing things better doesn't mean that this game did things bad.

But all of this still just boils down to "it's the right thing to do". What is his reason for turning himself into the judges and trying to save the people of Muscadet? Does he know that it will get him access to Exodus? No. Does he know that he won't remain in prison forever and never get his friends back to St. Ivalice? No. He just knows that letting a village get enslaved and imprisoned because he chose to buck the system is wrong.

In Golden Sun, there's a part where you encounter some people near the river who have been transformed into trees. After you fight off the villains, they push the people over, and one of them is dangerously close to falling into the river. All you have to do is take two steps out of your way to use your Psynergy to rescue the person.

Or you could just walk on by, and then you later find out that one of them got washed away by the river and drowned. Because you didn't feel like being a goody two shoes.

So, yeah, if you can't sympathize with the person with magic actually taking two seconds to save someone's life just because he feels it's the right thing to do, I kind of think you're a jerk.

Skyblade, you have utterly missed the point of my argument and are too hung up on trying to defend your own moral code instead of seeing what my argument is really about, which is "where is the characterization?", shion gets it, read her post, I want context if I am going to understand and relate to a character. I understand why I would save the people, but why is the character doing it? I can't accept "cause it is the right thing to do" as an answer because I understand the conviction of that belief needs something to motivate it, whether it was a harsh past, or maybe strong moral figure in their life, or maybe because they don't know any better. I can't follow a shallow character who does the right thing because they were written to do the right thing, I want to know why they make their decisions. This isn't an attack on doing the right thing, this is an about making sure the player understand where the character is coming from when they do the right thing, to understand why they are that type of person. It is too easy for writers to simply say "he's good because I said so" that doesn't make them relatable that just shows the writer is lazy.

Ok, in that case, go play Golden Sun again, and this time actually talk to the NPCs. Don't just rush off on your quest, explore Vale. Talk to the priests at the Sanctum, etcetera. You can learn a lot about how Isaac was brought up, and why he acts the way he does.

Vale is built on a culture of protection and community. They believe their role is to guard the world from Alchemy by protecting Sol Sanctum. The theft of the Elemental Stars is the failure of their entire purpose. Isaac is charged with recovering the Stars by an entity that about 90% of them literally think is a god.

We know that Vale has a strong sense of community and helping people out in the wake of disasters (it's literally one of the first things they show us in the game). We know that several of the young villagers want to go out and explore the world. We know that Isaac is directly cautioned about how he presents himself, since he'll be representing Vale and Psynergy to the world.

There is a ton of characterization and backstory available.