Quote Originally Posted by VeloZer0 View Post
Quote Originally Posted by chionos View Post
It can happen in a realistic manner and still be fun. That's the challenge for developers, yes, but it's a realistic challenge. Not talking about hyper-realism, here, but systems that make sense and aren't arbitrary
Guess that is where we have to agree to disagree. I think making designers consider how to make their systems not arbitrary is artificially confining, and just serves to hamstring the design process.

I'm not saying that you can't go for something more like you describe if that is what the game devs feel will work best with their game, I think the decision should always ultimately be a mechanics/immersion one rather than based on some meta-level value system they are working under.
I see what you're saying. I guess sometimes what makes a game immersive for one person doesn't quite have the same effect on another. I'm not saying that every game should have the same depth in its leveling system. For instance, TES are a series of games that approach realism on every level of gameplay, so of course their leveling systems should be complex and on some level approach realism too. However, a similar system implemented in a game like Kingdom Hearts would not be appropriate to the overall expression of that game's aesthetic. Those games have an entirely abstracted and unrealistic system of leveling, but it fits the story and the feel of the games so it works (at least for me).

I agree with you to the extent that realistic leveling (or any other specific type of leveling) should not be the focus or priority of any game. Each game should find its own system that works for it. However, no system in a game should be arbitrary (outside of games that are parodies or meant to be ironic). It has to make sense or it's going to annoy/frustrate the gamer, even if it's aesthetically pleasing somehow, or matches the developer's vision.

Also, Quin, you're probably right. That is a silly (arbitrary) system, lol. Not that I didn't enjoy hunting and sniping the little bastards, but it really doesn't make any sense. Well, maybe it makes Team ICO sense, but not normal human sense.