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Thread: Verbal Abuse

  1. #16
    Jinx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uchu View Post

    I think the real issue is why Shera put up with his crap. She says she is in debt to him or something, for ruining his dream... but damn, he would have blown up if she didn't do anything. She cared that much for him she was willing to die. Cid should be alone, but she sticks around. I think the real issue is her mental state, but that's a psychology discussion that I would rather avoid as it touches on issues that women (and men) face in real life. Furthermore, I don't think there is such meaning to it in the game.
    This. A thousand times this. I don't care if she "ruined his dream". She didn't. He'd be dead if she had not done what she did. So seriously. Stop justifying his treatment of her.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fynn View Post
    Jinx you are absolutely smurfing insane. Never change.

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    penisword chionos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinx View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Uchu View Post

    I think the real issue is why Shera put up with his crap. She says she is in debt to him or something, for ruining his dream... but damn, he would have blown up if she didn't do anything. She cared that much for him she was willing to die. Cid should be alone, but she sticks around. I think the real issue is her mental state, but that's a psychology discussion that I would rather avoid as it touches on issues that women (and men) face in real life. Furthermore, I don't think there is such meaning to it in the game.
    This. A thousand times this. I don't care if she "ruined his dream". She didn't. He'd be dead if she had not done what she did. So seriously. Stop justifying his treatment of her.
    Understanding isn't justifying. People are discussing all aspects of the relationship and its context. There are different types of abuse, different underlying causes, different ways to enact change, etc.

    I think evidence points to Cid actually being mad at himself and taking it out on Shera, and she does her part in directing it at herself. It's an unhealthy relationship both ways.

    But, then, are there any healthy relationships in FFVII? I mean, FFVII has a cast jam-packed with broken characters. It's poignant that the one true hero, of the lawful good variety, is killed off.

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    I think as someone who has been through abuse, it makes it harder to be okay with his character. Sure I understand what he's doing. Doesn't make it okay. If he was a real person, if their relationship was real, it would absolutely not be okay, let alone having the guy be likeable. In the end she did what she did, FOR HIM. She was literally willing to give up her own life so HE could live his dream. And then he treats her that way.

    I get that its frustrating to lose your dream when its right there in front of you, and I could even understand being that way for a little while after, but he just keeps going. He doesn't stop until after he finds out "oh yeah okay I see what happened here. Man am I a jerk haha"

    And yes she stayed when she probably shouldn't have, but I can point you to racks of literature explaining that type of behavior and how common it is in abusive relationships. She thought she ruined his dreams and his life. Then he verbally attacks her constantly, lowering her self esteem even more, making her believe she is a complete piece of crap. So she stays because she thinks she deserves it. She honestly thinks she deserves to be treated like crap. And that is sad and twisted.

    I know a lot of people will never agree with me on that one, and that's perfectly fine. At the end of the day, these are fictional characters. But to me he will never be likeable.

  4. #19
    Huh? Flower?! What the hell?! Administrator Psychotic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinx View Post
    This. A thousand times this. I don't care if she "ruined his dream". She didn't. He'd be dead if she had not done what she did. So seriously. Stop justifying his treatment of her.
    Nobody's justifying anything. Even if they were, you don't have the right to tell them to stop.

    Cid randomly kicks the walls for no reason, he's fixated and obsessed with what happened on past traumatic events, screams that he's so angry at nobody in particular and is snippy and agitated with everyone, not just Shera. Obviously she bears the brunt of it given that she lives with him, but he speaks to Cloud & co in the exact same way - and they hadn't "ruined his dream" or whatever. This isn't frustration that he can just get over. This isn't just anger issues or Cid being a jerk. These are not the behaviours of someone who is healthy and he was clearly struggling to interact with other people in a constructive manner.

    I also think we saw Cid on a very difficult day for him. He's on edge because Shinra are coming to town, and he's desperate, anxious and nervous for what they will say about the space program.

    Why do you think she lives there? Because the price of real estate in Rocket Town of all places is so unaffordable that she has to house share? I don't think people have grasped what the relationship between them is. Cid is mentally unwell and Shera is his carer. She's not downtrodden, she doesn't see it as abuse, she stays because she's looking after him. I'm sure it's not as black and white as that and she feels a sense of obligation due to the rocket incident, but I think it's primarily because she's a good person and trying to look after a friend who clearly needs help.

    No, of course Cid isn't being pleasant to her. I don't think it's as easy to judge a carer - cared for relationship as that, though. I suspect he feels guilty for it and he doesn't really blame her.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cid
    "Shinra took outer space away from me and now you want to take the sky away from me too!?"
    He knows who is to blame really. And once he has the opportunity he goes on a revenge mission with Cloud and the gang to get back at Shinra. Which is kind of irresponsible of them when you think about it, but it works out well in the end I suppose. And at least Shera gets some well earned respite.

    Oh, and no, Shinra aren't the most competent given that they have just one spaceship, one plane, one ship and one airship.

  5. #20
    Recognized Member Shorty's Avatar
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    Psychotic makes excellent points about Cid's character, all of which I agree with. I also think it's important to reiterate that Shera is his caretaker. She cares for him because she wants to and chooses to do so. As mentioned earlier, she isn't there against her will, she could leave at any time.

    Painting Shera as a victim who isn't able to stand up for herself or know what's right for herself doesn't give her credit as a character, nor does it give her credit as a person. Think about the nature of caretaking people for a moment. Caretakers do not put themselves first. They do not do this because they are unknowing, weak people who do not understand the situations they put themselves in. They do this because they have a need to care for others more than themselves. To anyone outside a relationship between two people, it might manifest as abuse. That is because we project our own experiences onto their relationship in order to translate it into what we want to see it as, or to translate it as the experience we went through. It is clear that Shera is acutely aware of Cid's flaws as well as the fact that he takes them out on her, and that she chooses to overlook that. She likely understands that even though she herself made a mistake, Cid is the cause of his own happiness. It's a part of his nature as a person, and she understands that she will need to accept this if she is to remain a part of his life to care for him, which is what she chooses to do.

    Responding to a person in the manner that she responds to Cid does not make them weak, it makes them strong. She knows that he needs her, he knows that he needs her. Does she deserve better? Yeah, probably. But she is there because she wants to be.

  6. #21
    tech spirit
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    But is there a lot of support of this caretaker scenario in the game's script? Is this something that was lost in translation?
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  7. #22
    Recognized Member Shorty's Avatar
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    Does there have to be support for it in the game's script? It seems to me like a reasonable explanation for her character as to why she hasn't abandoned Cid with all of the abuse he rains on her. I thought we were all hypothesizing here.

  8. #23
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    Well to be fair, people who say "if he's abusing you, just LEAVE" don't understand the psyche of an abused person.

    Often times the confidence of an abused person is so shattered that they think they're not worth it or that they deserve the abuse. It's even in the script that Shera says that she deserves what he does to her and it's okay. Not to mention that she might have no where to go or no support system if she did leaves. There's much more at play than simply "she doesn't have to stay".

    I'm not arguing for or against the caretaker/cared for suggestion, just saying that if this was a real person dealing with real abuse, it's much more complicated than "she wants to be there".
    Quote Originally Posted by Fynn View Post
    Jinx you are absolutely smurfing insane. Never change.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shorty View Post
    Does there have to be support for it in the game's script? It seems to me like a reasonable explanation for her character as to why she hasn't abandoned Cid with all of the abuse he rains on her. I thought we were all hypothesizing here.
    I dunno, while Cid seems to have a pretty short temper, I never got the impression that he is so mentally ill that he would need a caretaker. Like someone else mentioned in the thread already, it was a pretty bad day for him when we bumped into him for the first time. He might not be as bad as that on most days.

    I'm not really as caught up in why Shera ends up staying around Cid, but more that I think the whole scenario leading to the current situation is... not very plausible at best, and that makes it hard for me to care too hard about the result of it. At least in retrospect. I might have been a bit more impressionable when I played it for the first time in my teens.
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  10. #25
    Recognized Member Shorty's Avatar
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    I think you are taking the reference of caretaker too literally. I don't think anyone here has implied he's too mentally ill to care for himself, only that the bouts of rage he has are not those of a well person.

    I was implying more of a sense of that she actually cares for him in a loving way (note that I did not say romantic) instead of a nursing, feed you from a spoon way.

  11. #26
    Jinx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shorty View Post
    I was implying more of a sense of that she actually cares for him in a loving way (note that I did not say romantic) instead of a nursing, feed you from a spoon way.
    Thanks for clearing that up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fynn View Post
    Jinx you are absolutely smurfing insane. Never change.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychotic View Post
    snip
    Interesting idea, and definitely leaves food for thought. I never really considered it that way (or any way until this thread, to be honest). I do think Cid would be fine on his own though. If Shera was to leave him, he would be pissed off but he would do what he needs to in order to survive (but it would be tough for him as he would spend so much time feeling sorry for himself and blaming her). Basically, he takes her for granted.


    What you said makes me think of a real life relationship I know of that shares similar traits, so I appreciate what your saying.


    Quote Originally Posted by Psychotic View Post
    Because the price of real estate in Rocket Town of all places is so unaffordable that she has to house share?
    Oh, don't get me started . It's a rip off. Had to settle for a tiny apartment in Kalm myself.






    All this talk really makes my wonder if Square actually had intended for the relationship to have such deep meaning.

  13. #28
    Trial by Wombat Bubba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uchu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Psychotic View Post
    Because the price of real estate in Rocket Town of all places is so unaffordable that she has to house share?
    Oh, don't get me started . It's a rip off. Had to settle for a tiny apartment in Kalm myself.
    Kalm has always been overpriced, to be fair. I know you guys will think I'm crazy but the rates in Midgar can be quite reasonable. There's a nice corner of Sector 3 where you can get a lovely two-up, two down for the same price as a one-room apartment in Kalm.

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