What if FF as a series ended?

[Mirage]

It would be slightly annoying, but I wouldn't dwell on it for too long. The world of gaming wouldn't change extremely much after all, considering how few new main-series games have been released lately. It'd be like going from 0.2 a year to 0 a year.

[Aulayna]

I'd get over it pretty quickly really. Quality Final Fantasy titles have been few and far between for the last near 15 years now. During that time TV shows have come and gone as have other games. Until a release date for XV is actually confirmed - the series is already pretty dead in my eyes, all these mobile spin-offs/remakes just feel like an anti-climatic swan song really.

Of course I'd be sad at first, just like I was sad when some of my favourite TV shows ended. But like good TV shows, some of the better FF games have little nuances you don't notice until years later. FF would probably become something of a distant friend, that you had fond memories of but drifted apart as you both got older.

If you'd asked me this back during those 6-8 years when FFVI - X came out almost like rapid fire, then I'd probably say I'd be upset. But these days FF titles take far too long to show up that I've usually lost interest until the pre-release marketting starts kicking in.

[Psychotic]

It already did ten years ago.

Eyes on RPGs or Eyes on Gaming would become a serious possibility.

No need for that. FF will retain nostalgia value. I suspect we wouldn't notice a huge difference in user registration.

[Colonel Angus]

For me, personally, the last FF game was XII. I never played the MMORPGs or the Lightning Trilogy. So, in a way, it is a thing of the past. Thankfully, I've got 13 games I can always fall back on when I want my FFFix.

[Uchu]

Lots of interesting replies here, especially considering the foundation of this site. But i agree with those that said it wouldn't be a big deal. It would just be 'one of those things'. There are so many great games to play that losing one series would not send the gaming world into chaos ( hehe, chaos... *clears throat* ).

Anyway... I think FF would simply slowly fall into irrelevance as SE focused more and more on smart phone titles while choosing to butcher past characters and themes that its fan base used to love by continuously trying to force unnecessary spin-offs down our throats.

[DMKA]

I'd be incredibly depressed, and probably quit playing video games altogether.

[Loony BoB]

It already did ten years ago.

Eyes on RPGs or Eyes on Gaming would become a serious possibility.

No need for that. FF will retain nostalgia value. I suspect we wouldn't notice a huge difference in user registration.

It definitely would. EoFF gets more new members because of games like FFXIII and FFXIV than we do because of FFVII these days. Anyone who thinks that a forum based around an active video game series will be just as active if the series closed up shop is blinded to logic. And with your knowledge of what is popular on YouTube, I think you know exactly what draws people to the site.

Re: chionos - What I said above, but also will point out that while you might think EoFF survives because of Final Fantasy. I am quite confident that EoFF, over a few years, would become a mere shell of what it is right now should SE close up FF. The community is what keeps members sticking around, but it doesn't keep every member and we need a steady supply of newer members to keep activity going for when the older members want to come back to an active place. Seven of our top ten posters this month joined in the past four years.

There's also the fact that while new members can join because of old games, it's often because of the marketing of newer FF games that people remember the old FF games at all.

Thankfully I don't see FF dying anytime soon at all. SE are sensible - there is more reason for them to simply change the way they work on FF but keep the FF name than to abandon it altogether. Each game is new and each game is unique and innovative - there is no worry of running out of material in the world of RPGs. If one person runs out of good ideas, you replace them with another.

[Wolf Kanno]

I think you're missing one vital element of my thought experiment BoB, I only said the numbered series would end, not the FF Franchise which means SE would probably still continue to make FF games, just no more numbered entries, by that logic it probably wouldn't affect the forum as badly as you assume since people would still come here for new FF content we just wouldn't bother with this wait a decade for a new installment nonsense. Unless of course you are assuming such a move on SE's part would end the franchise in its entirety eventually.

Basically how important is the core franchise to you and to SE?

[Bolivar]

The OP answered its own question, in that, materially, things would not change all that much. Square just does not prioritize original entries in the main series anymore. I could see why, given if we went back to the annual schedule of FFVII-X, it wouldn't be long before Final Fantasies are numbered like Super Bowls. For a game series, such numbers can become tiring and redundant, so I commend Square for trying to find a place for the series in other areas.

It's sad to hear how cynical people are about the newer entries, but I guess it's always been fun to speak hyperbole on the internet. FFX is one of the most revered games of all time. XI is fondly remembered and XII is a cult classic. XIV has really got people talking is also a nice next-gen foothold for Square. XIII is the only questionable one but by no means is it a bad game. Its naysayers would be rendered hypocrites if we looked at their favorite games with the same high power microscopes they use to tear it a part. XV looks promising. The pace of the series has slowed down but by no means has its quality. If anything, its storytelling techniques and gameplay mechanics are far more sophisticated than even the greatest triumphs in any previous "golden age."

[Loony BoB]

Yeah, the only real issue is the development time, but you have to consider that fast development times these days are generally achieved by games that don't innovate or are rather short in gameplay/gametime by comparison. Still, I would prefer the games be churned out a bit faster - the speed of three very different games in XIII, XIII-2 and Lightning Returns shows that they can bring games out pretty quickly if they really want to. I know these games all used the same engine which is not a normal thing for numbered games, but perhaps a new engine shouldn't be needed every time a new FF comes out.

Wolf, you're right, I'd forgotten that you specified that the other games could continue as franchises of their own. I still feel that this would only work in the short term and eventually people would stop buying the games, or joining forums to discuss the series. I think original games are what has allowed Final Fantasy to outlast/outnumber any other major game series (bar the obvious sports games and whatnot... and Mario, should you consider him a franchise in his own right).

[Wolf Kanno]

The OP answered its own question, in that, materially, things would not change all that much. Square just does not prioritize original entries in the main series anymore. I could see why, given if we went back to the annual schedule of FFVII-X, it wouldn't be long before Final Fantasies are numbered like Super Bowls. For a game series, such numbers can become tiring and redundant, so I commend Square for trying to find a place for the series in other areas.

I don't necessarily agree that SE's slow churn of numbered entries is a direct result of not trying to overwhelm fans with high numbered sequels and more of a result of a disturbing internal issue that has become more and more public as the years went by.

It's sad to hear how cynical people are about the newer entries, but I guess it's always been fun to speak hyperbole on the internet. FFX is one of the most revered games of all time. XI is fondly remembered and XII is a cult classic. XIV has really got people talking is also a nice next-gen foothold for Square. XIII is the only questionable one but by no means is it a bad game. Its naysayers would be rendered hypocrites if we looked at their favorite games with the same high power microscopes they use to tear it a part. XV looks promising. The pace of the series has slowed down but by no means has its quality. If anything, its storytelling techniques and gameplay mechanics are far more sophisticated than even the greatest triumphs in any previous "golden age."

Someday Bolivar, you're going to come clean with us and reveal you actually work for SE in their online division who goes around trying to advertise on message boards pretending to be a "fan". The PS2 generation up to the current generation has been a very divisive 14 years for the franchise with each installment being a battleground. I can give you FFX being beloved and XII being a cult favorite but the online entries have both shared their controversy and the XIII Trilogy is definitely controversial among fans especially since many feel its partly to blame for XV's delay.

As for judging older games to the same standard as the newer ones, I would point out its a bit different trying to judge an artist by the works he did in the early part of his career against the works they did after years of more experience. Let's face it, XIII made some bad design choices and while I will concede that whether they ruin the experience for you is subjective, most people, even you, have publicly criticized the game for its choices. I wouldn't call it hyperbole as much as you being blind to the truth cause you can't face the idea the series has fallen on hard times.

Yeah, the only real issue is the development time, but you have to consider that fast development times these days are generally achieved by games that don't innovate or are rather short in gameplay/gametime by comparison. Still, I would prefer the games be churned out a bit faster - the speed of three very different games in XIII, XIII-2 and Lightning Returns shows that they can bring games out pretty quickly if they really want to. I know these games all used the same engine which is not a normal thing for numbered games, but perhaps a new engine shouldn't be needed every time a new FF comes out.

This has always been's SE's problem and Japanese devs in general, they don't like re-using game engines.

Wolf, you're right, I'd forgotten that you specified that the other games could continue as franchises of their own. I still feel that this would only work in the short term and eventually people would stop buying the games, or joining forums to discuss the series. I think original games are what has allowed Final Fantasy to outlast/outnumber any other major game series (bar the obvious sports games and whatnot... and Mario, should you consider him a franchise in his own right).

I agree.

[Loony BoB]

So basically we just need to convince SE to re-use game engines for multiple games per generation and to churn them out year-after-year. That way if people don't like one, it's okay because there is another one to look forward to. Similar to the PS1 generation, really. Alright guys let's put together a PowerPoint presentation and start learning Japanese.

[Bolivar]

Someday Bolivar, you're going to come clean with us and reveal you actually work for SE in their online division who goes around trying to advertise on message boards pretending to be a "fan". The PS2 generation up to the current generation has been a very divisive 14 years for the franchise with each installment being a battleground. I can give you FFX being beloved and XII being a cult favorite but the online entries have both shared their controversy and the XIII Trilogy is definitely controversial among fans especially since many feel its partly to blame for XV's delay.

I hope you're trolling because insisting I must be a SE employee suggests an inability to empathize with the perspectives of others, which is a sign of immaturity (as is insisting I'm "blind to the truth"). Are you honestly citing divisiveness as evidence of series decline? Do you remember some of the things you used to post about Final Fantasy VII and VIII? Those subforums were far more divisive in their heyday and make FFXIII's criticisms look like child's play.

And you know this (man).

Your analogy about art and individual experience is fallacious, which I'm going to take as evidence of a blind spot for you. Also, I criticize design choices in most games I like, so it's again illogical to take that as a sign of anything you're trying to prove.

[Uchu]

The OP answered its own question, in that, materially, things would not change all that much. Square just does not prioritize original entries in the main series anymore. I could see why, given if we went back to the annual schedule of FFVII-X, it wouldn't be long before Final Fantasies are numbered like Super Bowls. For a game series, such numbers can become tiring and redundant, so I commend Square for trying to find a place for the series in other areas.


It's sad to hear how cynical people are about the newer entries, but I guess it's always been fun to speak hyperbole on the internet. FFX is one of the most revered games of all time. XI is fondly remembered and XII is a cult classic. XIV has really got people talking is also a nice next-gen foothold for Square. XIII is the only questionable one but by no means is it a bad game. Its naysayers would be rendered hypocrites if we looked at their favorite games with the same high power microscopes they use to tear it a part. XV looks promising. The pace of the series has slowed down but by no means has its quality. If anything, its storytelling techniques and gameplay mechanics are far more sophisticated than even the greatest triumphs in any previous "golden age."

I agree. Not liking a story doesn't mean the game (or story) is bad in itself. I feel this is a mistake too many people make. Which is why at one point I asked why people dislike the laughing scene of FFX, because sometimes it seems people are hating on it as if they din't get that it's meant to be that cringe worthy.

So basically we just need to convince SE to re-use game engines for multiple games per generation and to churn them out year-after-year. That way if people don't like one, it's okay because there is another one to look forward to. Similar to the PS1 generation, really. Alright guys let's put together a PowerPoint presentation and start learning Japanese.

Fortunately, they are beginning to. They are also using 3rd party engines less reluctantly (not just SQ but Japan devs in general). It's baby steps, sure, but it's a start.


I also don't have a problem with the delivery times of the games. The trouble is the longer the development time, the more it costs and the more SE is reluctant to move on or admit mistakes. Now, I'm not looking at the sales figures for FFXIII (a game i did enjoy despite having some complaints about it), so maybe the sequels were justified by those numbers. But I would hazard a guess that they were more the result of putting too much time and money into the assets to not use them again.


I dunno, maybe thats okay to some degree, i mean, i did enjoy 13-2 (to the extent of grabbing that Platinum trophy) but even I lost interest in Lightning Returns and haven't played it. Maybe jaded is the term i'm looking for.


Oh, I seem to be rambling.


I see FF like a child, i'm not angry, just disappointed. DONE.

[Wolf Kanno]

I hope you're trolling because insisting I must be a SE employee suggests an inability to empathize with the perspectives of others, which is a sign of immaturity (as is insisting I'm "blind to the truth"). Are you honestly citing divisiveness as evidence of series decline? Do you remember some of the things you used to post about Final Fantasy VII and VIII? Those subforums were far more divisive in their heyday and make FFXIII's criticisms look like child's play.

And you know this (man).

Your analogy about art and individual experience is fallacious, which I'm going to take as evidence of a blind spot for you. Also, I criticize design choices in most games I like, so it's again illogical to take that as a sign of anything you're trying to prove.

I simply call you out because you're the first to defend SE and lately you've been whining around about how "it's not SE, it's the fans" which is pretty much the same hyperbole that Toriyama and Kitase gave when *gasps* the fanbase didn't completely rejoice about how wonderfully creative XIII was. When a game designer blames the fans first instead of taking a step back and maybe thinking that they had a misstep, it's a real bad sign.

Let me put this to you in terms you may understand, you're Vincent Valentine and Squenix is Lucretia, you are trapped in an abusive one-sided affair and instead of calling Lucretia out on their nonsense you're being overly defensive and taking their side convincing yourself that "you" or I guess "we the fans" are the problem instead of taking a step back from any emotional attachment from the situation and realizing that SE has some serious problems and maybe they need to be addressed if anyone is going to make this relationship work.

There is also nothing fallacious about my artist analogy, FFV (a game you claim to like) took one year to create, had a staff of maybe two dozen people and a modest budget. It was a solid game which you and I both agree on, was critically acclaimed for its time and is still hailed as one of the strong entries in the series franchise by both critics and fans. XIII took five years to develop, of which the entire gameplay concept was finalized only in the fifth year due to poor management making the development team basically waffle about as they dealt with silly internal politics like making the game a show piece for the new Crystal Engine which ballooned the development time. In five years the best they could come up with was a dumb down linear map system based on FFX and a dumb down Gambit system with the speed revved up to compensate for the lack of any real strategic thinking. They threw the rest of their resources into the story and graphics, the game had a development team twice the size of FFV and didn't bother doing any play testing until the game was almost ready for its initial release and largely ignored most of it. Now explain to me again how this comparison is so radically different considering one game was developed by six year veterans whose largest success at the time was FFIV and the other was developed by people who had a minimum of ten years and their names are attached to two of the most critically acclaimed entries in the franchise?

If you want to seriously sit here and dissect every FF entry with me so we can do a compare and contrast then by all means place your opening argument and let's get this show on the road but let's face it; it will go a few rounds, ultimately come to the same conclusion that all the games are flawed and liking them is subjective, you'll mention XIII's sales for why I should see XIII as being well recieved, I'll point out the sequels did terribly, we'll discuss metascore and both come to the conclusion the internet is a terrible place to get a valid opinion, I'll mention the general resentment the game gets across gaming sites and message boards, you'll say its due to the hyperbole of gaming critics and a vocal minority and then point out the sales of XIII and we'll start over again until we're both too tired to continue this petty argument.

VIII is a divisive game and probably always will be but I bet you there are more VIII fans than there are XII or XIII fans. Fans have been complaining about the quality of the series for years but the backlash of XI, X-2, XII, and the XIII trilogy makes it more noticeable because its been getting bigger and unlike VIII, IX, XI, and X-2 it doesn't feel like fans are going to redeem the others in time. Partly because the fanbase is spread out thin along with the concept of what a proper FF should be. I'm not saying that fans are free of any blame in this situation but SE kind of caused the problem in the first place with their long production times and need to try to "push it to 11" technologically which has created a fanbase that possesses an unrealistic expectation.

It was easy back then to brush off a bad game when they had the next game coming out in a year or two but that era is over and I don't really feel the current generation of FF fans (PS2 Era) would even be able to take the series in stride like we did back in the day. Even if they did get out a bi-annual schedule, they may just as likely whine that the quality is bad because they don't take the proper time like they used to. As far as I'm concerned SE has created for themselves a "damn if you do, damn if you don't" situation and it will only be a matter of time before it reaches a head.