The Anti-Fantasy

[Spooniest]

Who is Final Fantasy's "other half?"

It's been traditional to give that distinction to the Dragon Quest series, but they've been absorbed by Final Fantasy, and have drifted in and out of the international scene over the years.

So who is the contender that's out to knock Final Fantasy off its high Chocobo?

This list says that, in terms of sales, the Tales Series is the only non-SE property that ranks, and is a straight-up JRPG like Final Fantasy/Dragon Quest.

And it's waaaaaaay down the list. Final Fantasy is at 110 million, and Tales ranks in at a paltry 13.77 million.

So the question is, what can the Tales Series do that Final Fantasy can't? What is its position on the spectrum?

...To be perfectly honest, it really only seems like it sells well because of its similarity to FF. It doesn't attempt to set itself up as a serious contender.

I say, somebody needs to come along and punch SE right in the face with a JRPG-style game that deconstructs their entire approach to storytelling, gameplay and worldbuilding.

It isn't healthy for one company to own that much of the market. SE have gotten lazy with the FF series because they have no competition.

[Spuuky]

The competition that JRPGs have in the west is with ... WRPGs. Final Fantasy has to compete here with the Elder Scrolls, Fallout, and Dragon Age.

[Pumpkin]

So the question is, what can the Tales Series do that Final Fantasy can't?

Funnily enough you mentioned deconstructing and that is one of the main story telling elements to Tales games. For example: Tales of Symphonia (which is strikingly similar to FFX story-wise) is actually a deconstruction of the Chosen One trope, showing what could happen when that kind of burden is placed on one person (SPOILER)to the point where one of them is suicidal. Tales of the Abyss is a deconstruction of the Predetermined Destiny trope and what that would bring. Deconstruction popular RPG tropes is one of the things the Tales series does best

It also does more for character relationships. In FF games, the characters generally have one main relationship: the main hero. Maybe a few things here and there with someone else. But there are a lot of cases of the character speaking or interacting almost exclusively with the hero, or the main dude and main dudette. Every Tales game I've played does a good job of making the group feel like an ensemble. The characters have relationships between each other and interactions and stuff outside of the main guy and girl. Which to me makes a lot more sense when you have a group doing something as important as saving the world.

I really like both series and there are things one does better than the other, but I do find the Tales series a very strong contender for me personally.

[Fynn]

In Japan, I think SMT is pretty close to FF in terms of popularity..

[Vyk]

Anti Fantasy? Or anti Final Fantasy? I was actually coming in there hoping this would be a discussion about sci-fi RPGs or alien landscape RPGs (extremely rare) Now I'm sad

But yeah. In Japan it probably is either Tales or SMT. Now I'm wondering if Final Fantasy XIII or Skyrim sold better in the West. Pretty good point, Spuuky

And I never noticed that Tales games make a habit of deconstructing tropes. I should pay more attention, because that means they're doing exactly what I've been complaining the most about Japan's other games. Too married to tradition, tropes, and archetypes, and relying too heavily on those alone to carry the story and game without any addition or adjustment to make it unique and interesting. Just a bunch of cookie-cutter characters and plot devices. Hurray for Tales

But then again, SMT does a lot of that too, and puts most tropes and cliches on their head, when compared to Final Fantasy. As pointed out in another thread, they still use tropes and archetypes, but not in a cliche fashion. They mold them to their own design in fairly unique and interesting ways. At least so far as compared to other generic JRPGs. They admittedly do tend to stick to their own devised formulas (People have said that Persona 4 is just Persona 3 in a new setting, and the Devil Survivor games are generally identical with the cast just being the same personalities with new faces pasted on, but you can't really easily compare either of them to any other generic tactical JRPG)

[Ayen]

Now I'm wondering if Final Fantasy XIII or Skyrim sold better in the West. Pretty good point, Spuuky

FFXIII sold over one million copies in North America on its release month, Skyrim sold 3.4 million copies in two days.

[Colonel Angus]

Back in the day I always felt the anti-Final Fantasy JRPG series was Phantasy Star. However, it's been many moons since Sega has made one, that was a typical RPG.

[Vyk]

Yeah, people don't really even think of JRPG when they think of Phantasy Star anymore :/ They think of the Monster Hunter hybrid it's sort of become

I kinda wish they'd do a real Phantasy Star again. That's one reason I tried to enjoy Star Ocean: The Last Hope. It seemed so close to what Phantasy Star would have evolved into. Didn't live up to expectation unfortunately

On that subject though, Shining Force was always my anti-Final Fantasy. But that's strictly personal preferences, not sales numbers

[Leigh]

Shadow Hearts is to this date still my favourite JRPG that hasn't been crafted by the Square or Sakaguchi camp. A genuinely good game set outside of the realms of high fantasy and sci-fi dystopian nonsense. There aren't enough games set in the transitional period of 19th and early 20th centuries that aren't bonefide blow your face off war shooters. There are some seriously good settings you could base an JRPG or WRPG in, which doesn't feature a future suffering the effects of nuclear anal rapeage, or armour made out of dragon scales and the power of a bit of granite and rock.

[Bolivar]

Don't forget Pokemon - they may have eclipsed Final Fantasy in the West, partly because they still release and remake games on a regular schedule. We haven't even had a remake since FFIV Complete. In a way, it's somewhat of an anti-FF in that it puts stock into simplicity and mirrors some of the mundane everyday life of our own world, whereas FF has gotten flashier and more surreal since it's first installment.

It doesn't match it in sales but I would still mention Ogre Battle. Whereas FF tells a different story in every installment, Ogre Battle tried to use a different genre in every entry. There were only two but after they rebooted the series as Ivalice with Final Fantasy Tactics, they moved on onto Vagrant Story and Final Fantasy XII after that.

[Depression Moon]

I think that maybe Persona might be FFs biggest competition. It seems to get mentioned the most after FF, but then again Pokemon does as well and it's been around longer than Persona and has more entries to compete with Final Fantasy.

[Spooniest]

Now I'm wondering if Final Fantasy XIII or Skyrim sold better in the West. Pretty good point, Spuuky

FFXIII sold over one million copies in North America on its release month, Skyrim sold 3.4 million copies in two days.

So they're getting the living trout beaten out of them.

Next time somebody is hating on FF, I'll mention this tidbit to them.

[Fynn]

I think that maybe Persona might be FFs biggest competition. It seems to get mentioned the most after FF, but then again Pokemon does as well and it's been around longer than Persona and has more entries to compete with Final Fantasy.

Well, Persona is a part of the MegaTen series. I stand by what I said - they're both big long-runners with substantial fanbases, and really, they're both insanely popular in Japan.

[Spooniest]

Hm...

Yeah. You're right. Persona is what I'm thinking of.

It is everything that Final Fantasy is not, and all it's going to take is for Persona to have its "Final Fantasy VII" moment.

Unfortunately, I think the nature of the game's premise is inherently inaccessible to people raised in the political bitunbelievably passive aggressive in its repression of minorities United States.

So until things around here change a bit, it may not happen. Perhaps my teenage son will one day come to me and ask if I've ever played Persona. :/

[Fynn]

Hm...

Yeah. You're right. Persona is what I'm thinking of.

It is everything that Final Fantasy is not, and all it's going to take is for Persona to have its "Final Fantasy VII" moment.

Unfortunately, I think the nature of the game's premise is inherently inaccessible to people raised in the political bitunbelievably passive aggressive in its repression of minorities United States.

So until things around here change a bit, it may not happen. Perhaps my teenage son will one day come to me and ask if I've ever played Persona. :/

Actually, Persona 3 was its FFVII moment. Seriously, it put Atlus on the map in the West last generation, making then a serious competitor to Square Enix. You should give it a go and see what the fuss is about