THE ULTIMATE DEBATE: Final Fantasy VI vs. Chrono Trigger

[Spuuky]

I'll get to this in the morning, but Earthbound is completely overrated and anyone who says it is amazing is only doing so because revering an obscure title makes them feel special.

Yeah, because Earthbound is so "obscure." Also, it's an amazing game, although it isn't better than CT or FFVI or DQV.

This depends on the version, if you're playing the original versions, the XP/Gold given by enemies is much less than most of the ports. DQ is one of those series where the ports/remakes finally make them playable. In the GBA port for DQI and II you get nearly twice as much XP and Gold from enemies for instance reducing the need to grind whereas the original NES versions did require you to basically reach a new town and grind until you had enough money to purchase new equipment and gain levels before tackling the dungeons and then moving onto the next area.

Yep, and subsequently destroys the pacing of those games, but yes, no one likes "grinding" (by which I mean "playing the game").

[Forsaken Lover]

I like story in my games and DQ apparently has story kind of as an afterthought. It's there but it's basically "stop the evil wizard."

I had the DQ games summed up to me elsewhere as "unlike Final Fantasy which constantly strives to reinvent itself, DQ games are very same-y and yet they are always dependable."

[Bolivar]

I'm strongly recommending you just get over your preconceptions and download a rom. IV or V is my suggestion. VIII is pretty amazing if you can track it down.

[Spuuky]

DQIV and V are at least as story-driven as the FF games of the same era.

[Vyk]

So people's whining about having to grind is because they suck at strategizing turn-based combat in long dungeons and resource management. And then the grinding becomes just like any other RPGs where if you want to wipe out a boss completely you grind, or if you want a challenge, you just get there when you can. Is this the right idea? If so, then it has picked up a bad and unnecessary reputation. Because what you're describing doesn't turn me off

I may have to give them a try myself. Though jumping straight into an old-school game isn't what it used to be. Have any of these been decently ported or remade in a modern style to ease the transition?

[Forsaken Lover]

I was told all this about DQ's story just today when I brought up your guys hyping them elsewhere.

To quote

Dragon Quest games are not very plot heavy. The plots tend to be 'save the world from evil."

What I tend to say is that Final Fantasy games are about the characters, Dragon Quest games are about the towns and places you visit. The characters certainly matter (especially in certain games, like V or VIII) but the focus of the games is the places you visit and their trials and tribulations.

What they tend to be is just fun. They're certainly generic in that Dragon Quest is the template that all JRPGs are born from, but they focus on the sense of excitement and adventure instead of diving up their own asses. Even the most serious of the Dragon Quest games is still a lighthearted adventure story. They're certainly a bit samey, especially compared to the Final Fantasy franchise and its huge variety, but they're dependable.

For real though the plot isn't that deep but it's a very good not deep. It's just a fun story about four dudes beating up an evil wizard. There aren't any revelations about the meaning of life or anything, but it's a simple story executed in a fun way, and the dialogue manages to be funny and charming consistently. I definitely wouldn't call it barebones, the emphasis is just on the adventure itself instead of the grand reasons behind said adventure.

[quote]

[The Man]

They're wrong. DQV and DQVI are at least as plot-based as the FF games from the era. Definitely more so than FFV.

[NeoCracker]

In the case of V, I do think it's pretty plot heavy compared to other DQ's I've played, though there really isn't much focus at all on the characters. It does end up feeling as though story was an afterthought when compared to FF.

That said the story is still pretty damn good in DQ V.

[Wolf Kanno]

DQ tends to focus on plots while FF eventually became character driven and in both cases DQ does do stuff with characters but just not as well as FF; just as FF tends to have plot focus for some titles but often neglects it for character drama unlike DQ that stays more focus on their plots.

DQIV is more character driven than the NES era FFs, but its characters are not as fleshed out or interesting as say FFIV's. The big issue with DQ is that rarely do you really see the characters interact, for instance once the main character shows up in DQIV the other characters lose all personality and their stories are resolved in the driest way imaginable on the other hand, while FFV has a fun group of personalities running around its wacky story, DQV creates a more interesting narrative and often had more powerful character moments.

DQVIII has a great cast of likable characters but they lack the depth of other RPG characters that were more predominate at the time but they are still great characters. For me, DQ has always been a muted experience which lacked the emotional highs and lows of FF, though their stories tend to be much more clever than FFs. DQVII for instance is a much more clever time-travel story than FFVIII.

I think DQV was a great game for the 16-bit era and I really wish I had a chance to play it back when it was new but for me the game had some clever ideas and one really powerful moment but I feel it doesn't quite live up to the hype but that may be due to playing it out of context and I'll admit that. Its a great game but it didn't do it for me like FFVI or Chrono Trigger which were games that really stirred my imagination, DQV lacked "wonder" if that makes any sense and I was more impressed by DQIII personally.

[Bolivar]

I think we're talking in circles here. FL says he heard DQ isn't story-focused, the rest of us insist it is, and WK lets everyone know that he doesn't enjoy their favorite games as much as they do.

All I'll add is while DQ is not the in-your-face drama of FF, some moments and plot threads will jump out to leave an emotional impact. Again, I feel the stories are much more cohesive than FF and better at balancing humor with darker moments. The storytelling is much more nuanced than pixel sprites sacrificing themselves at fixed intervals throughout the plot.

So people's whining about having to grind is because they suck at strategizing turn-based combat in long dungeons and resource management. And then the grinding becomes just like any other RPGs where if you want to wipe out a boss completely you grind, or if you want a challenge, you just get there when you can. Is this the right idea? If so, then it has picked up a bad and unnecessary reputation. Because what you're describing doesn't turn me off

I may have to give them a try myself. Though jumping straight into an old-school game isn't what it used to be. Have any of these been decently ported or remade in a modern style to ease the transition?

I'm not callous enough to say people hate things because they suck at them but it goes like this. When you enter a dungeon, you have finite health and limited items and MP to replenish it. Sounds obvious, except you don't have the potion hordes of other games, MP-replenishments are near non-existent, and, in combat, your characters can only use the items they have on them in their 8 slots. Some monster group combinations are pushovers, while others require you to utilize low-cost spells and choose targets efficiently to minimize the HP you lose per battle. If you can do this while avoiding traps and solving puzzles quickly, you can then blow your MP load on nukes and buffs to vanquish the boss in one dungeon run. This all sounds incredibly generic and expected but what sets DQ apart is how perfectly balanced and finely-tuned everything is (the targeting mechanics are another differentiator). Its rewarding "easy to learn, hard to master" philosophy is the secret to its cross-generational mass appeal in Japan, along with charming worlds and clever puns.

I'd recommend you start with DQVIII as it's the consensus gateway drug. Be advised some areas might seem grindy but it's a very long story with a massive (and gorgeous) open world which expects you to enjoy exploration and rewards you for following your curiosity.

[Wolf Kanno]

I think we're talking in circles here. FL says he heard DQ isn't story-focused, the rest of us insist it is, and WK lets everyone know that he doesn't enjoy their favorite games as much as they do.
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I will use this opportunity to point out that we have another lovely thread to debate the merits of DQ vs FF

With that, I would say move that conversation over there and let's get back on topic here.

[Forsaken Lover]

I am enjoying what I played of Chrono Trigger so far more than I enjoyed what I played of FFVI.

Characters not really impressing me a whole lot yet but I guess there's a lot of room for improvement there. WitH VI the characters all kinda started out strong, especially Cyan. Here, I get the feeling I'll be waiting for a while before anyone gets any serious development.

I like the music a lot more in CT. FFVI only had Terra's Theme and Slum Shuffle. Oh and the boss battle music. CT though, I've loved every piece of music I've come across.

Interesting note now I have actually played some of Trigger is that it doesn't actually even have towns in the conventional sense. I'm glad in my OP I made sure to specify the world as a whole because comparing towns doesn't work.

[Wolf Kanno]

Yeah it doesn't, CT really shook things on its head with how they approached towns and battles. VI stumbled on using the same sprites for combat and exploration which created less jarring transitions between the two but I'm pretty sure the team was looking at trying to incorporate the seamless transition found in Secret of Mana which had a perpetual world and no true random encounters either.

[Bolivar]

A lot of CT's best character moments happen near the end of the game for me.

[Forsaken Lover]

All I can say is that Kefka? He's no Magus.