Why does SE believe that people don't like JPRGs?

[Wolf Kanno]

I'm simply pointing out that JRPGs made a mistake twenty years ago and decided to put all their eggs into one basket in terms of focusing on plot and character to the detriment of everything else.

You sound like someone who's never played a game designed by Hiroyuki Ito.

None of which are terribly challenging. He helped design two of my favorite games of all time but I don't consider either a challenge and I still feel the games make it easier for newcomers with only optional stuff for veterans.

Two of those games mentioned are handhelds and part of a different gaming generation as it is. Two of the other games are infamous for cleaning up the muck the genre has become by offering challenge and a streamlined interface that doesn't sacrifice the strengths of the genre's game design principles.

A) What does handheld and generation have to do with it?

B) From Software and Sega have been making games like those for 20 years.

I don't feel the Phantasy Star Online/Universe were terribly challenging and while King's Field is hard as balls, there is a reason no one has ever heard of them until Demon's Souls came out. I think you and I have very different criteria for challenging and not feeling like the game is holding your hand... Also I just don't like Valkyria Chronicles, I can appreciate what it tries to do but I find the games lacking and the story and characters atrocious anime fluff. You might eat it up because you sound like someone who avoids those type of games but as a long time anime fan and person who doesn't mind anime nonsense in my games I can tell you I have had my fill.

As for the handheld comment, I say that simply because several RPG fans, in this thread no less, have mentioned how they consider them "watered down experiences" which while I disagree, doesn't really change the fact that despite several wonderful handheld exclusive JRPGs coming out that were stellar, they are only talked about by people who like playing handhelds and are largely ignored by the rest of the fanbase. I mean SE doesn't really have a JRPG problem when it comes to handhelds, its their console entries most people have issues with. I also just don't really count titles on the 3DS as last gen, which is what I'm referring to when I speak about a poor selection, though the DS certainly had some strong entries.

C) This sentence:

Neither game is helped by one alienating its audience with its brutal difficulty and the other saw a limited release on a console most self-professed "hardcore" gamers would prefer to forget about.

makes absolutely no sense.

Again I'm pointing out that despite being great games, they will be niche. Kind of like Earthbound (released after everyone moved onto new console generation) or Tales of Symphonia ( largely loved for being a great JRPG on a console that had four JRPGs worth talking about) as opposed to titles that had universal appeal.

It really seems like you'd be better served playing some of the awesome games that have come out recently instead of complaining about them on the internet.

You are more than welcome to point them out to me cause I look across the field of this past generation and don't see much worth getting worked up over. Again, I do feel there are exceptions but as I was trying to point out it won't be as much of a collective narrative, instead it will be:

RPG Fan #1 - I loved Demon's Souls and Dark Souls
Fan #2 and #3 - I hear they were good but way too hard for our taste.
Fan #2 - What about Xenoblade Chronicles, that was a fantastic game that changed what a JRPG could be!
Fan #1 and #3 - We wanted to play that but we don't like the Wii, the 3DS version was a watered down handheld, and frankly it was hard to find.
Fan #3 - What about Bravery Default?
Fan #1 - I owned a Vita.
Fan #2 - I prefer console titles, handhelds are just too small and I prefer sitting back on my couch and watching it on my $1000 entertainment center. smurf handhelds...
Fan #1, #2, and #3 - So why are we all talking together again?
Fan #1 - Well Persona 3 and FFX were good...
Fan #2 and #3 - Oh yeah, those were great games! Why can't developers make them like they used to....

I lifted most of these comments from people on this forum, so don't try to say this isn't true. I'm just saying that this past gen was pretty weak for a JRPG fan and lacked a smorgasbord of great options like previous generations.

With that said, I feel we're probably going to go in circles on this issue as well and I'm bored of the topic at present since everyone seems to be unable to "see the forest for the trees" so I say we just quit while we're ahead and still willing to talk to each other.