Why does SE believe that people don't like JPRGs?

[Loony BoB]

I stopped following this thread a long time ago, but just in line with Fynn's post I can say that analysis is a big part of the enjoyment for me in story-driven games. It even has the potential of turning a very mediocre game into something a lot more interesting (which happened after I played through the XIII trilogy.)

I think the analysis you do and the analysis WK does are different things, personally. If you find the analysis you can do in FFXIII's trilogy to be amazing yet WK considers it to be one of the worst games in existence, well... yeah.

I will however note that there was a notable wink (left out in Bolivar's quoting of me) at the end of my suggestion that people stop analysing the games and just play them to have fun. It was a very tongue in cheek comment to WK, and as a friend I like to think he can take that as good as he gives (and he certainly gives! xD).

I stand by my stance that difficulty and gameplay are two different things, though, even if they can affect each other.

Still, this debate only brings up another point: If it's a case of me not being able to tell you guys to stop analysing a game, who are the people in this thread to say that JRPGs are no longer good? Nothing more than fans disgruntled that the latest RPG isn't something they liked.

I suppose I look at Final Fantasy like I look at Doctor Who, while perhaps Wolf Kanno looks at Final Fantasy like I look at, say, Game of Thrones. The former is a whimsical thing where most of the stuff flat out doesn't make sense and is often corny, but that's why we love it. Game of Thrones is a notably more serious series that is there to be taken seriously. All the things that happen have to make sense on some level. So you have one successful series where you take everything with a gigantic pinch of salt, and another series where you expect things to make sense upon deep analysis.

I really enjoy both Doctor Who and Game of Thrones. I can get enjoyment out of silly stories and serious stories and everything inbetween. Forrest Gump is another great example of sometimes silly, sometimes serious, but always a wonderful story. Even Lord of the Rings has some silly and some serious moments, and a lot of things that don't quite make sense but are wonderful all the same (hi, Tom Bombadil). If I were to analyse these stories with toothpicks then I would be missing out on incredible stories for the sake of details.

I think another film - Big Fish - would be an interesting watch for anyone who hasn't seen it. It touches on analysis and storytelling in a superb way. Sometimes you have to accept a story for what it is - a story. Sometimes there are parts that are absurd, sometimes there are parts that are "analytically acceptable" (?). But in the end, a story can be whatever the story wants to be. I feel that FFXIII was by no means the best in the series but it was very, very far from the worst. I can think of many stories - particularly in the way of the global plot - over the years that have been horrible in the FF series. FFVIII, a game I love, had an awful global plot. But I can put aside my grievances and still enjoy the character story, the insane orphanage link, etc. until I can see the good things in the game. But then, I always do my best to see the good in things. It's just the way I am.

And Fynn, there is a difference in going out of your way to find even more awesome things (I do this too!) and going out of your way to find flaws and them focusing on said flaws instead of putting them aside for the sake of enjoyment. Again - Big Fish.

[Scotty_ffgamer]

For what it's worth, I hadn't read any of the newer posts outside of Fynn's post before I posted. People will have different things stand out to them as they analyze a work though, but yeah. For me, XIII is easily the worst game in the series. XIII-2 and LR improved on that, but the story still wasn't great if you took it for what it was. There was a lot of interesting things going on in the background of the story. The mythology was actually fascinating to me by the time I beat LR, but most of that wasn't the focus of the story. Honestly, a lot of the things I found really interesting through analyzing that story were things that were probably unintentional on the part of the game developers.

Coincidentally, VIII is my favorite game in the series. I generally just take the story at face value, but there so much room for interpretation in that game that the story can practically be anything I want it to be. It's a lot of fun to interpret that story in vastly different ways.

[Loony BoB]

Further cementing the point that different people will like different things, and neither of us should be considered "wrong" for it!

I found the mythology to be central to every plot in the XIII series although the world plot wasn't made as important as the character development (which is par for the Final Fantasy course - it's always about the characters dealing with the world plot rather than the world plot itself).

[Scotty_ffgamer]

Well, it was sort of central to the plot, but a lot of the things that I found really interesting were just things kind of in the background. You have to do some digging around to get into a lot of the details. As I looked around for and thought about some of those details, I realized that a lot of the mythology in the background is pretty well thought out and fascinating. I just don't think that mythology was told very well in game. But that's just me. We're all different like you said.

[Loony BoB]

Yep. If you think about it, Elder Scrolls gets highly praised for things you can find in the background of the game that help flesh things out. I see this similarly, if not nearly as extensive. =]

But yeah, games like I, V, VIII, X... the plots leave me going "eh" a lot of the time. XII may have been more well planned but for me, it was just boring. Essentially I have never really seen world plots as a strong point for FF, bar maybe 1-2 of the games. But then few world plots entertain me to the degree a single FF character plot will.

[Bolivar]

Honestly I enjoyed reading the fleshed out lore upon loading a save or to break up the action. Just felt like a streamlined Elder Scrolls to me (of which I am a huge lore junkie).

[black orb]

Why does SE believe that people don't like JPRGs?

>>> It sound like the perfect excuse of a company who make bad games..

[VeloZer0]

Why does SE believe that people don't like JPRGs?

>>> It sound like the perfect excuse of a company who make bad games..

After 9 pages I think we have winner.