Will Final Fantasy XV's Cid be a Lady?

[Vyk]

Eh, I thought Rikku's sexualization was more than enough in the first game, when she bends over and pulls her pants down in front of you upon your first reunion with her. And they decided that was, in fact, not enough, and sexualized her MORE in the second game. Which I opted NOT to buy. Yes. It was a problem back then, too

And just because people eventually break down and buy (or even enjoy) a game that recieves criticism, isn't necessarily an endorsement that the person approves of every artistic choice that was made for that game's development. Sadly, it rarely works out like that

I was offended and insulted by the art in Dragon's Crown. And it wasn't just the women in that game. It was damn near everything. But I still rented it and played it with my girlfriend. The gameplay was grand, and we'd probably still buy it from a discount bin. And we'd definitely still roll our eyes at the art style whenever the amazon/valkyrie chick went on display to jiggle her boobs and rub herself all over the treasure we'd find

In that scenario though, it's like your racist grandpa. You know there's nothing you can do to change him. You accept everything else that's good about him, and openly disapprove of the worst parts about him so nobody thinks you're endorsing his attitude, and life just goes on. But it is NOT perfect

Edit: I agree with Fox_. I think it's a tad more relevant, that they JUST made this decision. Rather than wasting time lambasting them for decisions they made 10 - 15 years ago

[Shorty]

It's getting quite heated in this thread. Let's tone it down a bit, thanks.

[chionos]

Also, I think part of the issue with this one is that they took a precedent and changed it in a sexual way because the gender changed. Cid was USUALLY an older, not super attractive guy. Now because Cid is a woman, she's suddenly overly sexy and aged down like 20 years. I know I would personally be reacting differently if they made most of the male Cid's young and sexy and then made a female Cid that way. It would be like "Well, yeah, that's Cid."

This is the crux of the issue, clearly (and I'm not sure how so many people can't see it), though I am definitely of the opinion that the fact there's not a clearly defined definition for "sexy" or "sexualized" means we can't really get anywhere resembling an agreement.

Because while I believe Cidney is certainly a sexualized character (and unnecessarily so) and is evidence of sexism in video games (or in this case specifically the Final Fantasy franchise), those who think that males in Final Fantasy aren't sexualized are blind or straight up lying to themselves.

I also think that anyone who ignores the differences between what the average female finds sexy or sexual in a male character and what the average male finds sexy or sexual in a female character will never understand the truth about the situation and furthermore will never be able to change anything.

Comparing revealed skin percentage doesn't work. Comparing female chest bulge to male crotch bulge doesn't work.

Again, I'm pretty comfortable saying that Cidney is a sexualized character because that outfit is just ridiculous. This has nothing whatsoever to do with any other Final Fantasy character. That's where this discussion breaks down. There are sexualized male and female Final Fantasy characters. There are non-sexualized male and female Final Fantasy characters. None of that changes a single thing regarding what's been done with Cidney.

I think it's neat that Cid's been gender-flipped, but I also think this is kind of a lame way to go about it. Non-playable and nothing to do with the story? I'm disappointed. I also do not like the eye color. Sadly, everything about the character is leaving me kind of meh.

And also as for Penelo, I personally find her one of the more attractive FF characters, and while I would say her clothing isn't the most modest (I mean you'd have to be sewn in to that thing its so tight) it certainly isn't one of the more revealing anyways. Which also makes me wonder why sometimes we can't just make characters sexy without showing off everything. Or maybe different types of sexy. Not saying it never happens, again, just talking about the general.

As you said, it does happen. There are different types of sexy all over Final Fantasy. Balthier is a great example. For all that physically attractive is a relative state, the other elements of attraction are even more relative or even arbitrary.

But there are ways to do that without making them walking sex objects.

That's where Cidney seems (from what we know so far, which is, to be fair, less than we should before we started speculating, but oh well) to be different from other FF characters. Distinct from other sexualized FF characters like Lulu, who was overtly sex-objectified, but also had a full personality apart from her "boobexual" moments (bending over after battle, etc.) Again, maybe Cidney will have more of a personality than is implied by her role as a non-playable character that has nothing to do with the story. As it stands, she may well end up being the most sexist version of a character in FF's history. And then again, she might not. I really hope Cid's first foray in a female shell turns out to be deeper than it looks, though.

[Hannibal_Khan]

Originally Posted by Jinxie Poo
I did say that that THE FACT THAT THIS IS A DROP IN THE POND IS A PROBLEM.

I've stated from the beginning that my issue was with the criticism Cid's outfit was receiving, in relation to other FF outfits in the series. Not about any other games and/or media. Go back and read my post Jixie. That why I was "purposley ignoring" those statements. I had already answered that I was not debating whether or not a majority of women are sexually objectified throughout the media.

Originally Posted by Jinxie Poo HER OUTFIT IS ONLY THERE TO OBJECTIFY

You say this, but you know almost nothing about her character. Characters in the past have worn revealing outfit's but still have been great characters. Why can't the same be true for her?

[Fox]

Originally Posted by Jinxie Poo HER OUTFIT IS ONLY THERE TO OBJECTIFY

You say this, but you know almost nothing about her character. Characters in the past have worn revealing outfit's but still have been great characters. Why can't the same be true for her?

The two are not mutually exclusive. Go back to Rikku from X-2. I think she was a very good character! Now how much of the goodness of her character existed "because she's in a bikini?" Approximately 0%. Bikini or business suit, her character remains the same.

The bikini was chosen just to make guys lust after her. Which is pretty much the definition of sexual objectification.

[Spooniest]

So take out full page ads in all the newspapers in Japan saying you're pissed about this, picket the release of the game, do something.

I just can't stand it when there's all this suspense built up by the discussion of a problem and no solution. It's because I watched too many movies as a kid, I bet

[Fox]

Discussion on the subject is the solution.

- Publisher does something stupid
- Gets bad press
- Thinks twice before doing it next time.

And, you know, talking about character depictions on video game forums? Surprisingly useful in itself. Because where do the next generation of game developers spend their internet time in their youth? Right here.

[Mirage]

@spooniest Maybe someone will. Maybe someone at SE will notice the online controversy and make the developers aware of it. I know this is SE we're talking about, but there have been examples of other businesses responding to internet stuff in various ways. Like Bamco overreacted and removed a character from the US release of T7.

Also before someone says something about it. Fox' "right here" might be a general "here", as in "online message boards", not this forum in particular.

[Vyk]

Yeah. Getting bent out of shape doesn't really solve anything, but it feels better to vent at least. Plus the venting happens all over the internet. Media sources sometimes pick it up, and it becomes a thing. Sometimes even a phenomenon. Sometimes it forces change. Or at the very least gets noticed and attention. But whatever. We probably mostly just want to vent and hope they wake up and do better next time. Or surprise us and prove us wrong this time

[Psychotic]

Square-Enix is aware of Eyes on Final Fantasy and they almost certainly have some poor intern crawling internet forums like ours (and the big boys like NeoGAF and reddit etc) and a thread like this is going to make that intern sit up and take notice. Hi intern, by the way, how's it shaking?

The intern will then report the trends and online reactions to someone who will say "Great work!" and promptly put their report into a shredder and Square-Enix will carry on doing what they're doing irregardless. Sorry to make you feel bad about your job, intern person.

[Mirage]

You know, even a thing where she wears a coverall zipped all the way up when she works and unzips a bit when she's done because it gets hot would be better than what we have now.

[Del Murder]

You know, even a thing where she wears a coverall zipped all the way up when she works and unzips a bit when she's done because it gets hot would be better than what we have now.

Hell, that could be a mini game.

[Mirage]

seriously though, if they're gonna keep those clothes, they need to give her the most terrible skin ever seen in final fantasy.


Here's an actual question:
Does her appearance sell more games? Do you think people who are not interested in FF15 will now buy the game because she has her tits out in a skimpy outfit? Do you think guys will actually seriously rate the game higher because of her tits? This is 2015. If you're horny you pause whatever game you're playing, open a new tab and start writing redt...

If it doesn't sell more games, which i seriously don't think it will, I don't see anything other than a potential slight drop in sales because of certain people who's finally just had enough of this sort of thing. Nothing "personal" towards FF15, that might just happen to be the game that finally caused them to actually take a stand, after seeing tons of other games doing the same thing before it.

So from a business point of view, what's the point? Why do it? Why not make her look more tasteful to both male and female customers?

[Tyson]

seriously though, if they're gonna keep those clothes, they need to give her the most terrible skin ever seen in final fantasy.


Here's an actual question:
Does her appearance sell more games? Do you think people who are not interested in FF15 will now buy the game because she has her tits out in a skimpy outfit? Do you think guys will actually seriously rate the game higher because of her tits? This is 2015. If you're horny you pause whatever game you're playing, open a new tab and start writing redt...

If it doesn't sell more games, which i seriously don't think it will, I don't see anything other than a potential slight drop in sales because of certain people who's finally just had enough of this sort of thing. Nothing "personal" towards FF15, that might just happen to be the game that finally caused them to actually take a stand, after seeing tons of other games doing the same thing before it.

So from a business point of view, what's the point? Why do it? Why not make her look more tasteful to both male and female customers?

Subconsiously yes, I think it will sell copies. Us FF fans are buying regardless but to the more casual gamer I think it will peak there interest.

Hell I've seen pictures of Cidney posted all over gaming news sites and even by some facebook pages that don't have anything to do with gaming. Sex does sell. Its the reason they stuck Lightning on the cover of XIII even tho every other cover beforehand was just the logo (I'm still sore about that :/)

[Mirage]

Most customers who aren't already into Final Fantasy aren't going to know about her existence prior to buying it. Most customers don't even spend a lot of time on online gaming sites. I don't think it's going to push any more copies than they will lose by people who dislike it.

People who are already into it but sit on the fence aren't going to be like "wow look at that rack that i might see like a few times over the course of 50 hours. Definitely getting it now, yup. Not even subconsciously. Half-dressed women isn't a scarce commodity on the internet. People aren't going to buy a 60 buck game for it.

for the record, sex doesn't sell all that much, at least not for advertisements

Sex catches attention, but that doesn't mean it sells.