The Anti-Fantasy

[Bolivar]

Now I'm wondering if Final Fantasy XIII or Skyrim sold better in the West. Pretty good point, Spuuky

FFXIII sold over one million copies in North America on its release month, Skyrim sold 3.4 million copies in two days.

So they're getting the living trout beaten out of them.

Next time somebody is hating on FF, I'll mention this tidbit to them.

It needs to be emphasized that Skyrim is the only WRPG selling at this level and it did so only after Bethesda either streamlined or eliminated many of the franchise staples that actually made it an RPG. Even then, it catapulted it to a Call of Duty, Grand Theft Auto level of cross over success that transcends genre debates, at a number Final Fantasy never sold at, even in its prime.

[Spooniest]

Actually, Persona 3 was its FFVII moment. Seriously, it put Atlus on the map in the West last generation, making then a serious competitor to Square Enix. You should give it a go and see what the fuss is about

Until Atlus is a publicly-traded company, no they are not on the map.

It's entirely possible that Persona 3 is as good a game as FFVII, but what I mean is a moment where Persona as a series "goes mainstream" the way FFVII did.

Like I said, the premise is a little strange for the political bitxenophobic as smurf USA. If I were in charge of that series' next installment, I'd work on researching ways to tell the story from a newcomer's perspective.

[Loony BoB]

Pokémon, surely.

I do think that you can compare Square, Enix and SE with WWF, WCW and WWE. Bare with me, here.

When they had each other to compete with, they were in their prime. When one bought the other one out and the competition dwindled as a result, the quality of the one bigger group also dwindled. Others, such as TNA (let's say, whoever made the Tales games) attempted to rise and take on WWE to some extent, but they were never quite at that level. Instead, WWE found itself competing with other similar sports like MMA (WRPGs) and the competitions within them such as UFC (Elder Scrolls) and it's hard to say if there were any real winners once that happened, because they aren't really the same form of entertainment - WWE focuses on adding in story elements, while UFC is all about the gameplay.

I often look back in fondness to the times when WWF and WCW were competing with one another, as I feel the competition really benefited the genre as a whole. I often wonder if things would have been different. Still, despite all that, I am confident that, given time, the future can still lead to good things for WWE. But perhaps the best thing that they could do is sell off parts of their business so they can compete with one another in a less "in-house" manner.

Back to gaming (but did we ever leave that topic? Oh ho ho), I think the best chance of competition SE had was born in Mistwalker and then died when they couldn't get the marketing or investment done right. Mistwalker should have started up as a Kickstarter. I can't take the art style of some other games seriously, in all honesty. Tales in particular. I feel like I'm watching a cartoon and I just lack any form of immersion in the story because of it. Persona can be similar. Ni no Kuni, likewise. I want a game that does things like Final Fantasy and Lost Odyssey do things. The graphical quality mixed with the good gameplay. I mean, I can dig the games with poorer graphics but AAA games can make it that much better if they play their cards right, and I'm sure we all know that by now. Perhaps it'll happen someday.

[Bolivar]

^ lol that was awesome.

...and disturbingly accurate.

[Fynn]

Actually, Persona 3 was its FFVII moment. Seriously, it put Atlus on the map in the West last generation, making then a serious competitor to Square Enix. You should give it a go and see what the fuss is about

Until Atlus is a publicly-traded company, no they are not on the map.

It's entirely possible that Persona 3 is as good a game as FFVII, but what I mean is a moment where Persona as a series "goes mainstream" the way FFVII did.

Like I said, the premise is a little strange for the political bitxenophobic as smurf USA. If I were in charge of that series' next installment, I'd work on researching ways to tell the story from a newcomer's perspective.

It may not be on the same scale, but it really did just that. This series actually caused Persona (and the whole of the SMT series for that matter) to be more than just a niche title nowadays. I doubt there's a chance for a JRPG today to make as big an impact on the industry as FFVII did back in the day, but Persona 3 sure did the thing in the JRPG community.

[Loony BoB]

I have heard more about Ni no Kuni, Lost Odyssey and some random phone games than I have about Persona 3 over here in the UK. I've only heard about Persona 3 at EoFF, actually. I think it's a marketing issue as much as anything. I don't think it's had anything remotely close to an FFVII scale of impact on the wider market.

Personally, I think a new IP is needed to really break the market.

[Fynn]

I wouldn't say Pokemon is a better fit. It's always been huge and it's demographic has always been pretty different than FF. Persona is where a lot of people turned to when the non-controversial FFs ended. I know it's not as large as FF is, but it still means a whole lot in the industry these days. And it's a similar demographic, plus it often deconstructs themes present in FF, so...

[Leigh]

I liked the social/dating sim elements of Persona but that was about all that drew me to the games. The actual gameplay did nothing for me. jRPG combined with Roguelike, just like Azure Dreams, which was also a snorefest. =P

[Loony BoB]

I wouldn't say Pokemon is a better fit. It's always been huge and it's demographic has always been pretty different than FF. Persona is where a lot of people turned to when the non-controversial FFs ended. I know it's not as large as FF is, but it still means a whole lot in the industry these days. And it's a similar demographic, plus it often deconstructs themes present in FF, so...

I just found out that Persona 3 sold in the low hundreds of thousands in both Japan and North America. Compare that to Ni no Kuni which had something like double the total sales of Persona 3 and I think it's fair to say that Persona is not the real competition for Final Fantasy at this point. Sure, Ni no Kuni is a one-off game, but if a new IP can outsell the "breakthrough" game for a series, then the series is not really doing that hot.

Found out while doing that research that Persona really didn't take off in Europe, which explains why I'd never really heard much of it outside of EoFF.

[Spooniest]

I think that if Persona as a series really made up its mind about it, it could challenge FF, but it would have to make itself a lot easier to get into. Aesthetically and gameplay-wise, it is polarized in the opposite direction.

Pokemon is the FF series' biggest direct competitor monetarily, but it aims at a completely different age group.

Final Fantasy may be intended for Teens, but it's been a while since it was marketed to pre teens.

[Fynn]

If you're going by sales, I guess. I was thinking more along thematic lines and fandom wars. FF is actually the only JRPG relevant in the mainstream nowadays, and I doubt that will change. Among JRPG fans, however, Atlus is on the rise. And in Japan, it, FF and DQ for this holy triad of JRPGs.

[Leigh]

I wouldn't say Pokemon is a better fit. It's always been huge and it's demographic has always been pretty different than FF. Persona is where a lot of people turned to when the non-controversial FFs ended. I know it's not as large as FF is, but it still means a whole lot in the industry these days. And it's a similar demographic, plus it often deconstructs themes present in FF, so...

I just found out that Persona 3 sold in the low hundreds of thousands in both Japan and North America. Compare that to Ni no Kuni which had something like double the total sales of Persona 3 and I think it's fair to say that Persona is not the real competition for Final Fantasy at this point. Sure, Ni no Kuni is a one-off game, but if a new IP can outsell the "breakthrough" game for a series, then the series is not really doing that hot.

Found out while doing that research that Persona really didn't take off in Europe, which explains why I'd never really heard much of it outside of EoFF.

I think it is fair to say that no jRPG has really taken off in the West (sans-Final Fantasy), outside of a select niche demographic. The only reason I turned to jRPGs was because the Adventure Genre had well and truly took a nose-dive by the time Final Fantasy VII came out. jRPGs were the only games that had that sort of storytelling that I appreciated.

I think on forums and video game communities, we often forget that we are usually the minority...in that we care enough to discuss them. Black Ops almost sold 30 million units, but I am yet to see a forum with 30 million members, let alone, 30 million active members. =P

[Loony BoB]

Oh, sorry, I thought we were going by status rather than similarity. In the case of similarity I'm really unsure what there is out there these days that isn't a one-off game, so I suppose Personal will have to be it. If you count one-off games, Lost Odyssey, The Last Story and others are probably closer to FF, but this is an assumption I'm making so I'll defer to the judgement of others.

[Laddy]

Tales is accurate, in my opinion. It complements the series nicely.

Alternatively, Mass Effect. The fanbases are similar and both are huge story-based games with lots of fans from other sides of the Pacific.