Is Final Fantasy Dead?

[The Man]

I certainly haven't had interest in any of the entries in the series for about nine years; XII is the last game released in the series (in the West anyway) that I liked the looks of, and I still haven't gotten around to playing it yet, so make of that what you will. I don't know if it's dead, but it's mostly evolved in a direction that doesn't interest me much. XV might be good, but as Tori pointed out, the development hell does not bode well. Type-0 might also be good, but in both cases it doesn't matter too much because I don't have a PS4 and am not likeky to get one anytime soon. And as for XIV, it may be a good game but I have zero interest in MMORPGs.

So yeah, the series might not be "dead", but I don't have too much interest in it either.

[Pike]

It's occurred to me that I might be looking at it differently than you guys. When I play an FF game I'm really just looking for a silly, familiar game to play when I feel like playing a grindy JRPG. I'm not exactly looking for a huge masterpiece or ~experience~ or anything. They're just games I play when I want to go back to something familiar and relax for a bit. As far as I'm concerned Square is still delivering those types of games and FFXV is looking like a similarly silly, lighthearted game.

If you see Final Fantasy as a more "epic" series than I can see where your disappointment is coming from. It's just not really how I see FF. (And I don't mean this in a bad way at all, by the way.)

[Galuf]

final fantasy aint dead. but sadly a few of their creations are

list of dead characters in comparison of "dead" ff games

(SPOILER) those 3 dudes from ff2
Tellah
Galuf
Aeris
dead FF games:
FFXII
FF XIII ( 2 and LR)
( there may be more dead playable characters in FF but i only know these ones. and "dead " ff games are up to opinion. i just went with general looks. however 12 might not be dead at all)


this is more random stuff from me so dont ask what the point of this thing was about idk.

[Ayen]

It's occurred to me that I might be looking at it differently than you guys. When I play an FF game I'm really just looking for a silly, familiar game to play when I feel like playing a grindy JRPG. I'm not exactly looking for a huge masterpiece or ~experience~ or anything. They're just games I play when I want to go back to something familiar and relax for a bit. As far as I'm concerned Square is still delivering those types of games and FFXV is looking like a similarly silly, lighthearted game.

If you see Final Fantasy as a more "epic" series than I can see where your disappointment is coming from. It's just not really how I see FF. (And I don't mean this in a bad way at all, by the way.)

Yeah, I see what you're saying. My thing is I just want an enjoyable game to play. My angry hate filled speeches notwithstanding I'm actually not a hard guy to please. I'll go to a movie and enjoy it even if most people who thought about it for more than two seconds ripped it limp from limp, so when I play a game like FFXIII and not enjoy it I'm just confused. Because I know it doesn't take that much for me to be content, so what's the problem? What am I missing?

But I was looking at these articles from more of a business standpoint because those sales numbers were concerning, and I already know Lightning Returns did even worse than XIII-2. So either the FFXIII fans aren't buying the game or that fanbase isn't as large as some would have us believe and they couldn't have made back what they put into making those sequels (the amount of money that goes into AAA games in general is just ridiculous btw). I admit those articles are a bit out of date. I don't know how much ARR has made since then. I hope that clear things up. I just want the Chiefs to go to the Super Bowl one more time.

[Scotty_ffgamer]

Final Fantasy isn't dead, but I do feel like the Square I knew and loved has been on the decline for a while now. The PS1 era really brought about some interesting projects that you just don't see from the company anymore. I feel like most of the more experimental things they do end up having to have a connection to FF or another big name before they feel comfortable releasing them. There are some exceptions (like Bravely Default and The World Ends With You), but I miss the days where we were getting the likes of Ehrgeiz, Einhander, Musashi, Vagrant Story, Xenogears, etc etc.

In the end, XIII has been the only real slip up as a game to me. XIII-2 was a heck of a lot of fun. Lightning Returns was a little less fun, but it had a pretty interesting world and was still enjoyable. XIII isn't even absolutely terrible, it's just not one I personally enjoyed very much. XIV is fantastic. Type-0 looks fantastic. XV looks great, and they've even been improving as a company with the communication they've been giving on development for that game. I think if XV comes out and bombs, we might be at a point where we could start considering the possibility of FF being dead. It could also very well be the resurgence of an RPG powerhouse. You never know.

[Depression Moon]

I was going to ignore this thread because its a major repeated, but hell no how can it be dead when we get constant games in the series? You want to know what a real dead franchise looks like? Megaman, Banjo, and Def Jam.

[Lazerface]

Nah it ain't dead. Alive and kicking.

[Loony BoB]

Final Fantasy is not dead, it is simply doing what it always has done: Shaking things up each iteration so that the gameplay is markedly different and therefore picking up new fans, encouraging innovation in the industry, disenchanting some fans who expect every game to be exactly like the one they loved most and all the other usual things. The only key difference is the development time, which is a concern. But as far as the games go, little has changed but the technology and the freedoms and limitations said technology allows. Every Final Fantasy game in recent years has had it's criticism. The longer time between development, the longer there is for fans to overhype the game in their heads and to criticise it after it's released because another FF hasn't replaced it in their minds.

Thankfully, like Pike, I just enjoy them for what they are. =] Fun video games.

[VeloZer0]

it is simply doing what it always has done: Shaking things up each iteration so that the gameplay is markedly different

Actually between FF1 and FF9 they only shook things up with the gameplay once with the introduction of ATB over Turn Based. While games have always had innovation and change the idea that they have to completely re-invent the wheel every game is most certainly not a series staple.

[Loony BoB]

I disagree. Yes, the way people's turns in battle are picked out wasn't shaken up too much in that time, but other aspects of gameplay were notably changed. If you name any two Final Fantasy games (preferably those I've finished!), I can pinpoint a large number of differences between them, from the levelling up system, the job system, how magic is learned/obtained, the technological era, all kinds of things. Compare that with most other games (again, the shooter genres are worst for this) and you'll find that Final Fantasy does mix things up to a considerable degree, often doing things that have not been done before.

[Del Murder]

Final Fantasy isn't dead since they are still making Final Fantasy games. However, it has a lot different meaning than it used to have. Square was once a company that made high quality JRPGs with the FF label being reserved for the highest quality and most cutting edge of these games. Now, FF has become more of SE's general brand of JRPG games as the company has diversified significantly and produces a more wide variety titles, such as cell phone and action games. So the FF label does not have the power or significance it once had and it is indeed 'dead' if you compare it to what it used to stand for.

SE has always been a for-profit company but I believe in the past their philosophy was 'make great games, and the profits will follow.' These days, I feel like the philosophy is more of a general 'how can we make the most money?' Sure, making quality games is still a great way to make money and they still try to do that, but it's not the sole focus and they've opened up to other methods of generating revenue, such as casting a wider net with their FF brand and having microtransactions. This has resulted in success with new audiences but their core audience has been alienated by brand dilution and movement away from their historical pricing and development models.

[VeloZer0]

Yes, they mix up the character/party development systems every entry, I don't think anyone would dispute that. But somehow this got transmuted into the idea that they had to completely change how the battles work every game. Which didn't really have any precedent, and IMO significantly slows down the turn around time of each entry for exceedingly little return.

(Well, from my point of view it is a negative return because they by and large produce systems that aren't as good as ATB or Turn Based to begin with.)

[Del Murder]

And part of the problem is that they no longer make non-FF RPGs where they can try out these ideas, thus keeping the changes in the main FF entries a little more focused, as had been in the past. Case in point: Versus/FFXV. Was supposed to be a spinoff game with a different feel than the traditional FF, but due to their eroding commitment to being the defining JRPG developer in the word, it was eventually reskinned to be the next main entry in the series.

It will be some time before we (if ever) see a main console FF entry that is conceptualized as such from start to finish. That's why I'm hoping that Ito-FFXVI conspiracy theory is true.

[Wolf Kanno]

Final Fantasy isn't dead since they are still making Final Fantasy games. However, it has a lot different meaning than it used to have. Square was once a company that made high quality JRPGs with the FF label being reserved for the highest quality and most cutting edge of these games. Now, FF has become more of SE's general brand of JRPG games as the company has diversified significantly and produces a more wide variety titles, such as cell phone and action games. So the FF label does not have the power or significance it once had and it is indeed 'dead' if you compare it to what it used to stand for.

SE has always been a for-profit company but I believe in the past their philosophy was 'make great games, and the profits will follow.' These days, I feel like the philosophy is more of a general 'how can we make the most money?' Sure, making quality games is still a great way to make money and they still try to do that, but it's not the sole focus and they've opened up to other methods of generating revenue, such as casting a wider net with their FF brand and having microtransactions. This has resulted in success with new audiences but their core audience has been alienated by brand dilution and movement away from their historical pricing and development models.

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[Loony BoB]

And part of the problem is that they no longer make non-FF RPGs where they can try out these ideas, thus keeping the changes in the main FF entries a little more focused, as had been in the past.

Did they ever do this, though? You say they try things elsewhere in the past, in other non-FF RPGs, but I have never heard of this happening. My belief was that all the systems they introduced over the years were introduced in a Final Fantasy game.

As for ATB, I'm not sure sticking with it would have continued to win fans over in the long run, nor random battles. I quite like the new battle system compared to the older ones, and I think it's a step in the right direction. I don't think they've perfected it by any means, but I think that a mix between turn based and action is still the way to go. It's hard to come up with the perfect system, though. I like being able to move around on a battlefield, but also like turn based attacks. MMOs and FFXII fit this, but MMOs have you only controlling a single character and FFXII's gambit system was just not something I enjoyed at all. ATB is still cool for some games but when I played Lost Odyssey I did feel the battles were somewhat dull, and I can certainly understand why so many people pre-FFXII/XIII were crying out for a change in battle system in order to reach out to new fans. XII and XIII were two attempts to get past that and both have fans, but both also got criticism too. Finding the perfect balance is a tricky thing when you have so many people who will all throw out criticism if it's something they don't like. In the end, sometimes I feel that SE are damned no matter what they do with a FF battle system. If they stick with turn based, they get criticised. If they switch to gambits, they get criticised. If they try the paradigm system, they get criticised. D'oh!

As for microtransactions: I can't think of many companies (actually I can't think of any personally off the top of my head) that don't do these. I think that's more of a criticism towards game developers in general. I can see the pros and cons for microtransactions. On the one hand I hate them and refuse to pay for the majority of them unless I feel I like a game so much that I'd have paid more and still felt it was "worth it" in the first place. On the other hand, I can understand that many things they put into games simply couldn't be done in the first place if they didn't have microtransactions to pay for the development of them, especially if they are AAA games that require so much work in the first place. So I'm very conflicted on them in general. xD