View Poll Results: Which do you prefer?

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  • Final Fantasy VII

    27 60.00%
  • Final Fantasy IX

    18 40.00%
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Thread: EoFF Ranks Final Fantasy Final Vote - FFVII vs FFIX

  1. #31
    Bolivar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Egami View Post
    On the contrary, Iíd say that VII is a much better game all around. Gameplay is much better in it than it is in IX and the balance between story and gameplay is better handled as well. In IX you spend too much time watching stuff be it cutscenes, cinematic sequences, active time events and the like and it also has a lot of downtime, specially when you enter towns/cities for the first time. It is a case of the story taking over the gameplay as opposed to complementing it. During fights you do way too much waiting due to how slow (even at max battle speed and with hasted characters) the ATB implementation is and how long the transition from the field to when you can input commands in the the battle screen takes. Which makes each encounter a tad tedious especially as the random encounter rate in this game seems to be a bit higher than in previous titles.

    In terms of narrative and pacing, right from the start IX gets off in the wrong foot with an overly complex and long introduction (which can amount to almost the first 2 hours of the game) and after that it practically meanders and plods during the first two discs to various locations seemingly at the whims of the scenario writers as opposed to the service of any greater plot. Everything from the battles to the plot progression feels slow in IX, even the battle theme itself takes a while to pick up the tempo and get going. A small part like the Midgar section of the first disc of VII is better written and paced than the entire first disc of IX.

    The battle system and it's respective method of learning abilities is counterintuitive and not implemented all that well. While in VII you could buy new weapons and decide which one to use due to attack power, materia slots and growth it had, but you still had the ability to continue developing your materia and using it's abilities by transferring them to a new and more powerful weapon. IX basically makes it as if the materia were permanently attached to the weapons (and equipment) themselves, thus forcing you to stick to a low class weapon doing miserable damage to ever more powerful enemies or having low defence in the case of equipment if you wish to learn it's abilities (which take rather long to learn) or making you just go with the strongest weapon/equipment and let characters learn the abilities by chance (considering that most abilities are rather inconsequential, this is strangely the best option). In the case of characters like Vivi it leads to an imbalance, where you'll have Zidane doing, say, 400hp damage with his weapon whereas Vivi with his Fire spell does a measly 80hp damage because he has yet to learn a new level of the spell or because you just havenít been able to buy the weapon that has it. The Trance skill is also a step backwards from what we had in VII and VIII (which X thankfully brought back) as it is very unreliable since once the gauge is full it activates and there is no way to save it up for later or any way to control it as you could in previous titles.

    As far as characters goes, Zidane was so happy go lucky and one note as to be unrelatable and had practically no character growth or depth. Cloud was a far more intriguing and compelling protagonist with a better handled and fleshed out arc and he being an unreliable narrator was quite refreshing and further drew you into the story. As for the rest of the characters in IX, the only interesting one which showed any kind of internal struggle and development was Vivi but his arc is not really followed through once the bit about Zidaneís past comes in. Freya sort of got a bit of background during the part at Burmecia/Clerya but this line is basically shelved after that. Amarantís arc is poorly paced with next to nothing happening for him for the most part and then some sort of rushed development happening at the last hour. Overall the game doesnít really does a good job at tying up the characters stories.

    If we think about what it is that has defined FF over the years and what has earned the series such a high reputation as a standard bearer of it's genre, it is not a checklist of things to include in each entry to the series (like crystals, chocobos, moogles, and the like); rather, the driving factor has always been about treading uncharted waters, trying bold new ideas, pushing the envelope and redefining the genre. Such was the case with IV, V, VI, VII and VIII. Each entry didn't seek to conform to some RPG formula or to return to some idea of the series "roots"; rather it went against those very notions, always building up from what came before with each entry progressively moving away from the accepted norms of jRPGs.

    In that light, IX is a regressive title as it decides to play it safe in practically every aspect, undoing nearly every sort of advancement in things like character customisation and party formation that had been made in the series since IV. Back is the rigid leveling system with each character boxed, as it were, into their respective jobs with little to no customisation to be had. Back is the game not allowing you to switch your party members at will (until really late in the game) back is the 4 members party, which wouldn't be bad, but due to the lack of customisation, it suffers from the same thing that IV did (which allowed for 5 members) which is that there is in fact less room for strategy than in previous titles. It is like nearly every element of the game was put in simply for the sake of appeasing a false sense of nostalgia, even the slogan in the back of the CD case proudly proclaims ďthe crystal is backĒ (which only makes a last minute cameo appearance at the end of the game).

    In the end, by trying so hard to be like what came before, IX simply ends up lacking a distinct voice and identity of itís own; which is perhaps why it ends up falling into the background for most people when seen in light of other more daring entries into the franchise.

  2. #32
    Feel the Bern Del Murder's Avatar
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    Both are classics and some of the best FF experiences, but FFVII was something more than just a great FF game. It really defined an entire generation and changed the RPG landscape forever. It's a clear choice for me.

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  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Egami View Post

    As far as characters goes, Zidane was so happy go lucky and one note as to be unrelatable and had practically no character growth or depth. Cloud was a far more intriguing and compelling protagonist with a better handled and fleshed out arc and he being an unreliable narrator was quite refreshing and further drew you into the story. As for the rest of the characters in IX, the only interesting one which showed any kind of internal struggle and development was Vivi but his arc is not really followed through once the bit about Zidaneís past comes in. Freya sort of got a bit of background during the part at Burmecia/Clerya but this line is basically shelved after that. Amarantís arc is poorly paced with next to nothing happening for him for the most part and then some sort of rushed development happening at the last hour. Overall the game doesnít really does a good job at tying up the characters stories.
    Putting aside the Cloud stuff...

    "...interesting one which showed any kind of internal struggle and development was Vivi"

    How about Dagger? Heir to the throne of a kingdom, a naive child struggling to prevent a war caused by her mother's sudden thirst for conquest. The mother she knew became lost to greed, and died tragically, forcing Dagger to rule a kingdom and immediately defend her people from a terrifying and unstoppable power. She fails at her duty, watched her people die and her country be all but destroyed, loses her voice to grief and is forced to overcome these and find the courage to face Kuja once again and rebuild her nation.

    To me, that's quite significantly more interesting than Cloud's little "Obnoxious and unskilled kid gets injected with Mako and pretends to be someone more interesting until he falls into the lifestream and gets his memory back" arc.

    Also: Steiner and Beatrix! To suggest they didn't have interesting character arcs just seems silly to me.

  4. #34

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    Final Fantasy VII is everything.

    I'm discussing my 108, er, 111 favorite games of all time in THIS THREAD so go check it out and join the conversation!

  5. #35
    Yossarian Lives Administrator Psychotic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    To me, that's quite significantly more interesting than Cloud's little "Obnoxious and unskilled kid gets injected with Mako and pretends to be someone more interesting until he falls into the lifestream and gets his memory back" arc.
    That's doing the character as much a disservice as if I said "Spunky princess gets bored of palace life, finds out her mum is evil and goes so emo after mummy dearest snuffs it that she has to cut her hair. Rules Alexandria; wears nice dress." and you know it

  6. #36
    GONNA ROKKEN YOUR WORLD WildRaubtier's Avatar
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    Without considering the relatableness of an Everyman to that of a Noble, even!

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychotic View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fox View Post
    To me, that's quite significantly more interesting than Cloud's little "Obnoxious and unskilled kid gets injected with Mako and pretends to be someone more interesting until he falls into the lifestream and gets his memory back" arc.
    That's doing the character as much a disservice as if I said "Spunky princess gets bored of palace life, finds out her mum is evil and goes so emo after mummy dearest snuffs it that she has to cut her hair. Rules Alexandria; wears nice dress." and you know it
    Yeah, but that misses out huge chunks of Dagger's story so is unfair derision. Whereas my derision, on the other hand, is totally legitimate and only leaves out the stuff about Sephiroth.

    And I think we can all agree he was a pretty inconsequential character.

  8. #38
     Master of the Fork Cid's Knight Freya's Avatar
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    Anyone who is dissing IX for story and character archs makes me laugh when you take into account of the various characters of VII who had little archs.

    Each game has its faults. VII has its rabid fanbase because for many it was their first venture into RPGs and 3D gaming. This cements it into their hearts as it was their first love. Rose tinted glasses will always be on for most fans which means a lot of EoFFers. No telling them otherwise or they get grumpy and rude. Regardless of who VII would have ended up against, it would have been the same attitude.

  9. #39
    Kuldotha Rebirth escobert's Avatar
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    HAHAHAHA FINAL FANTASY VI and X fanboys. VII RULES THEM ALL.

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  10. #40
    Yossarian Lives Administrator Psychotic's Avatar
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    And it leaves out the parts of that unskilled kid managed to be a hero without realising it, how he starts off outright stating he doesn't give a smurf about the Planet to fighting for its very survival, and how the anti-social loner becomes a leader, mentor and friend to others. Nobody in FFIX develops as much as Cloud does. Leave off him. He's a top lad and looks good in a Silk Dress!
    Quote Originally Posted by Freya View Post
    Each game has its faults. VII has its rabid fanbase because for many it was their first venture into RPGs and 3D gaming. This cements it into their hearts as it was their first love. Rose tinted glasses will always be on for most fans which means a lot of EoFFers. No telling them otherwise or they get grumpy and rude. Regardless of who VII would have ended up against, it would have been the same attitude.
    The anti-VII fanbase is just as, if not more rabid as this entire tournament has demonstrated beautifully. Don't even make me bring up the IX vs X-2 debacle for IX fans...

  11. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychotic View Post
    and how the anti-social loner becomes a leader, mentor and friend to others.
    *sniff*. It is​ a beautiful story. I'm so happy for you, Squall!

  12. #42
     Master of the Fork Cid's Knight Freya's Avatar
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    IX also has a lot of haters(anti-IXers) that regardless of what you say will always have to try to prove whatever game is against it is better

  13. #43
    Yossarian Lives Administrator Psychotic's Avatar
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    ...whatever.

    The difference between the two is that Squall doesn't know how to interact with people. Cloud just has an unrelenting contempt for everyone.
    Quote Originally Posted by Freya View Post
    IX also has a lot of haters(anti-IXers) that regardless of what you say will always have to try to prove whatever game is against it is better
    Wouldn't know, I voted IX in the Semi and also against XII. I wouldn't make a campaign for, say, FFIV just to prove a point.

  14. #44
     Master of the Fork Cid's Knight Freya's Avatar
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    Just pointing out the type of voters/eoffers/fans.

  15. #45
    Yossarian Lives Administrator Psychotic's Avatar
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    Anyway back on topic, I think it's fair to say both games have characters it develops well, but they also have their Cait Siths and Quinas. Interestingly though you also had non-party characters like the Turks or Beatrix getting some development.

    I don't think it's mandatory for every character to receive in depth development. Some of them really are there just to make up the numbers and from a gameplay perspective, those numbers are necessary. You can't keep cramming and shoehorning big long story arcs for every character in. Though it's certainly something FF has done more of with time, and in my opinion FFXIII was the first one to truly develop every single character. But then, they kind of peaked, climaxed and resolved their character arcs with a third of the game remaining, and it was dull from there so

    While I'd probably say protagonists are equal, FFVII's villains definitely stomp IX's. Shinra, for me, are the best villains in any FF with such a huge variety of characters, motives, and an ever present and powerful threat. You also naturally have Sephiroth and I think at times he's so overrated that he's underrated. If you put aside the OMG SO COOL ONE WINGED ANGEL ~*so beautiful*~ nonsense, most people don't remember that he had a fantastic and menacing presence. This is especially true in the early part of the game when you never see him, you just see the aftermath. Trail of blood, impaled Midgar zolom, smurfing intense. It's like, "Do I really want to catch up with this guy?" With IX, Black Waltz, Brahne and Beatrix were all fine antagonists although obviously none lasted the distance for various reasons. The likes of Garland and Kuja weren't that great for me though - I just couldn't be impressed or intimidated by or even like or loathe them.

    Anyway, overall it's a close thing. In my opinion FFVII has better gameplay, story (IX was doing just fine, and then Terra happened...) and soundtrack. IX has better art direction and sidequests. And naturally its save points stomp the trout out of VII's question marks xD I struggled to think which world was better as you have the incredible oppressive hulk that is Midgar but then also the lovely swagger that is Treno. I'll call that one a rub.

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