Ki vs Magic?

[Lazerface]

Well not to revive old topics or so. But I made a thread on this on DBZ forums as well a long time ago I have the same name there except it's spelled with a S instead of a Z. But I wanted to now your honest thoughts on this pushing the Kefka vs Goku debate aside. I say ki is like a double edged sword in a way in a way, It serves two purposes. It can kill and it can defend the user. But aside from there it can't do much beyond offensive and defensive techniques it can be used for devastating attacks like Kamehameha or Big Bang Attack, or even simple ki blasts which doesn't take much effort to utilize. If I associated it with anything in the FFverse I'd say it's pretty damn close to non elemental magic attacks the only difference is that it's ki and not magic. The definition of ki is simple, the body's spiritual energy or the spirtual energy of the living things around you. Everyone has ki but not all can utilize it properly. Magic in comparison is utilizing the power of everything in the universe, whether it be elemental, physical, or even on the spirtual plane like magic such as holy. Magic in comparison is like a Swiss Army Knife, or a Tactical tomahawk, a Trench shovel (I say that because they can be used in digging trenches, defending against attacks, or killing, or used in digging out landmines like in WWI), or even that one gun from the Fifth element. All in one. It's similar to Ki because not everyone can utilize magic as well either. But along with that it can be used to heal, kill, defend, repair, create, or simply improve things. Notable magic would be attacks like Ultima, Flare, Holy, Meteor, and Comet. In comparison to ki I've noticed that using magic takes time and patience to use, something that not many have because one could do a perfect physical attack against those charging their attack up in magic or attack with magic of their own before the other could use it. But wisely they won't have to worry about being attack physically if they know vanish. I guess my whole point would comparing something that's purely meant for killing to something that can do a multitude of tasks including bringing death. Compare the strongest ki attack to the strongest magic attack and wait to watch who'd win (not taking sides on that). Depending if that magic user know teleport well enough to get away from physical attacks. So throwing past discussions aside, who do you honestly think would win? A Ki user or a Magic user?

[Vyk]

That is very much a "depends on this" scenario. Very powerful ki martial artists (such as those in the DBZ universe, but they kind of take it to ridiculous extremes) and very powerful magic users can be devastating. If it's just "DBZ vs Mages". Pretty much DBZ all the time, since they can destroy planets at comparatively low levels compared to their ultimate potential. And while super powerful arch mages can probably devastate a whole country, continent, or even planet, I don't think I've ever heard of a mage physically taking out an entire planet in any mythos I've ever read

If you want to tame it down to just powerful ki martial artist vs powerful magic artes, then it's really just a matter of distance. In D&D a monk will pretty much decimate a mage if they're anywhere near. Probably withing 20 or 30 feet. But if they're like on opposing mountainsides or something or something, I'd say the mage certainly has the advantage

[Lazerface]

That is very much a "depends on this" scenario. Very powerful ki martial artists (such as those in the DBZ universe, but they kind of take it to ridiculous extremes) and very powerful magic users can be devastating. If it's just "DBZ vs Mages". Pretty much DBZ all the time, since they can destroy planets at comparatively low levels compared to their ultimate potential. And while super powerful arch mages can probably devastate a whole country, continent, or even planet, I don't think I've ever heard of a mage physically taking out an entire planet in any mythos I've ever read

If you want to tame it down to just powerful ki martial artist vs powerful magic artes, then it's really just a matter of distance. In D&D a monk will pretty much decimate a mage if they're anywhere near. Probably withing 20 or 30 feet. But if they're like on opposing mountainsides or something or something, I'd say the mage certainly has the advantage

Yeah, but then you have magic users that can destroy the entire universe or compress time itself. I don't recall many ki users knowing this but if so then they might as well be evenly matched.

[Vyk]

Yeah... then you're going outside the realm of just straight up power and talking about manipulating reality itself and stuff. That's more of an apples to oranges thing. But any mage that can do that probably wins by default. But I've never read a story where something like that even begins to happen. There's always threats that they're about to obtain that power, but then get defeated or killed either before it happens, or during the process. So who knows I guess. But my knowledge is a little more limited in that respect. Sounds like something Lovecraft would come up with, honestly. And even in that regard, old-age threats of "breaking the universe" is generally small scale hyperbole compared to the imaginations of Toriyama, Salvatore, or Greenwood

[Mirage]

I like to imagine that instead of dragonball characters being insanely powerful, it is actually the universe they're in that is incredibly fragile.

I've never really bothered to separate "ki" from magic anyway. They can be functionally very similar. As far as I'm concerned, ki/chi/qi is a form for magic.

Imagine a very powerful support mage who has access to bravery, faith, haste, protect, shell, quick, and all that, then casting it on themselves to gain superhuman physical abilities. Sounds pretty similar to ki to me.

[Skyblade]

Measuring just the forces themselves, magic would probably be superior to ki. Ki is based on the physical potential of the user. It is harnessed, focused, and channeled into some odd effects, but supposedly still based on physical attributes, and therefore bound to physical limitations. This is why training the body increases one's ki. Magic is all about breaking the laws of reality. Making happen that which is normally impossible. Most limits to magic as a power are put on those who wield it. From complexity of rituals, to mental strength or scope, etcetera.

Also, while magical destroyers of worlds may be rare, that's mostly due to the setting differences. Stories with magic usually aren't set in a time of space flight, so blowing up a planet would just be idiotic. But it has happened (and far worse, as Vyk pointed out with reality bending magic users). However, it is also good to note that magic has just as much, if not more, use as creating worlds than chi has destroying it, and requires not only more power, but also more control.

[Lazerface]

^^Hmm makes sense. But I think Buu has universe busting potential and I also think Whis and Beerus have this as well and their notable gods who use ki very well. Though I don't know if ki can be reality warping like that.