The Order 1886

[Fox]

Yeah, 60fps is always better, but 30 is generally fine. I mean pretty much every racing game on the last gen consoles was at 30fps and they were perfectly playable (and if you need a high framerate anywhere, it's twitch based shooters and racing games). Personally I wish more developers would go for framerate over resolution and graphical fidelity (I believe Battlefield Hardline is doing this, hence why it's gonna run at 720p on X1 and 900p on PS4) but that's certainly personal preference.

The framerate discussion surrounding The Order was just stupid. It's fine at 30fps, and favouring fidelity over framerate is a perfectly legitimate choice. So I dunno why they tried to say it was to make it more 'cinematic'. No, if you wanted to make it cinematic you'd make it 24fps... which you won't do because it's borderline unplayable. I almost wonder if, because it's an exclusive title, Sony forbade them from using terms like "technological limitation" or anything that might make the PS4 hardware look bad.

[Skyblade]

Yeah, 60fps is always better, but 30 is generally fine. I mean pretty much every racing game on the last gen consoles was at 30fps and they were perfectly playable (and if you need a high framerate anywhere, it's twitch based shooters and racing games). Personally I wish more developers would go for framerate over resolution and graphical fidelity (I believe Battlefield Hardline is doing this, hence why it's gonna run at 720p on X1 and 900p on PS4) but that's certainly personal preference.

The framerate discussion surrounding The Order was just stupid. It's fine at 30fps, and favouring fidelity over framerate is a perfectly legitimate choice. So I dunno why they tried to say it was to make it more 'cinematic'. No, if you wanted to make it cinematic you'd make it 24fps... which you won't do because it's borderline unplayable. I almost wonder if, because it's an exclusive title, Sony forbade them from using terms like "technological limitation" or anything that might make the PS4 hardware look bad.

That's the real thing that bugged me. It was a technical limitation, not a feature, and to try to pass it off as one doesn't sit well with me.

But having run with PC games for so long, and having even my Wii U staying at 50+ FPS continually, seeing a drop to 30 on a game praised for its graphics is irritating.

[Bolivar]

This is where the debate gets controversial and I hate to say it but... I think The Order's director was right. You guys should google the framerate controversy when The Hobbit released for reference. There is an observable phenomenon where people's brains will tell them something doesn't look cinematic if its framerate far exceeds film and this absolutely carries over to games. When the No Russian sequence from Modern Warfare 2 was leaked over YouTube, before it supported 60fps, I thought it was one of the most disturbing things I had ever seen in a game. When I actually played it at 60fps on my PS3, it looked very cartoony and very fake.

I have a Samsung 3D/high refresh rate TV and although it does not change the native framerate of games, it generally makes them look more fluid, particularly colorful games, especially if they're cell shaded. However, when I played Killzone 2, a lot of the atmosphere was lost when running on a higher refresh display simulating more frames.

Now I'm not saying the "cinematic feelz lol" isn't bulltrout - certainly Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes and The Last of Us Remastered look very cinematic while running at 60fps on PS4. I actually think this is a very special area where only games are headed, and I look forward to seeing more of this on PS4. At the same time, I respect Ready at Dawn for implementing the letterbox film borders, achieving the advent of CG-quality gaming, and in the process allowing the lower framerate mind-trick to give it that aesthetic, which, like it or not, is backed up by the science.

Again, as someone who games at 144fps, I gotta call BS when people say 30 is jarring. I don't mean to push your buttons Sky but even you have to admit - you didn't know The Order was 30 until someone told you it was

[Fox]

I don't think "people thought The Hobbit looked weird" is particularly scientific. They're used to 24fps, they're watching it on a giant cinema screen and they don't have interactivity to contend with. Ready at Dawn know full well that higher framerate = better gameplay experience.

OK, so they can't achieve that and make it look as pretty as they want, and that's totally fine. But I can't believe for a second that 30fps is some kind of 'cinematic artistic vision'. 30fps isn't a cinematic framerate, it's US soap opera frame rate. They succeeded in making the game look cinematic not because of the framerate, but because of the excellent job they did with the lighting, animations, post-processing effects etc. That's what gives it that distinct 'film look' and in a hypothetical world where the PS4 was twice as powerful I imagine that movie-like effect would have been quite happily perservered over to a smooth 60fps.

[Skyblade]

This is where the debate gets controversial and I hate to say it but... I think The Order's director was right. You guys should google the framerate controversy when The Hobbit released for reference. There is an observable phenomenon where people's brains will tell them something doesn't look cinematic if its framerate far exceeds film and this absolutely carries over to games. When the No Russian sequence from Modern Warfare 2 was leaked over YouTube, before it supported 60fps, I thought it was one of the most disturbing things I had ever seen in a game. When I actually played it at 60fps on my PS3, it looked very cartoony and very fake.

I have a Samsung 3D/high refresh rate TV and although it does not change the native framerate of games, it generally makes them look more fluid, particularly colorful games, especially if they're cell shaded. However, when I played Killzone 2, a lot of the atmosphere was lost when running on a higher refresh display simulating more frames.

Now I'm not saying the "cinematic feelz lol" isn't bulltrout - certainly Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes and The Last of Us Remastered look very cinematic while running at 60fps on PS4. I actually think this is a very special area where only games are headed, and I look forward to seeing more of this on PS4. At the same time, I respect Ready at Dawn for implementing the letterbox film borders, achieving the advent of CG-quality gaming, and in the process allowing the lower framerate mind-trick to give it that aesthetic, which, like it or not, is backed up by the science.

Again, as someone who games at 144fps, I gotta call BS when people say 30 is jarring. I don't mean to push your buttons Sky but even you have to admit - you didn't know The Order was 30 until someone told you it was

That's because YouTube, the only place I had seen actual gameplay, is capped to 30fps itself. I figured the frame rate was a result of YouTube, not the game.

I do find it jarring, especially in realistic games, because of the increased disconnect between action and response. The jerky transition between movements (or, especially, from stationary to moving) that occurs with the lower frame rate can hurt immersion in that sort of game. Motion blur can actually make this worse, due to the split from a stationary frame to a motion blurred frame on the slower frame rate. This is why I will deactivate motion blur if I can increase the frame rate by doing so.



Also, I found a 4 hour YouTube video of all the cutscenes. So I can experience half the game's content without buying a PS4.

[Fox]

As much as I dislike The Order, I do think you're very limited in the amount of criticism you can really give without having played the game. I make racing games for a living, and there are so many people who look at videos and say "the physics look terrible". Well, they're physics. How it looks is inconsequential, it's all about how it feels. So yeah, you can look at half of The Order's content via Youtube, but you're missing out on the other half. Imagine somebody criticising a book who only read every other page.

[Skyblade]

As much as I dislike The Order, I do think you're very limited in the amount of criticism you can really give without having played the game. I make racing games for a living, and there are so many people who look at videos and say "the physics look terrible". Well, they're physics. How it looks is inconsequential, it's all about how it feels. So yeah, you can look at half of The Order's content via Youtube, but you're missing out on the other half. Imagine somebody criticising a book who only read every other page.

Honestly, at this point I'm just arguing for the sake of arguing. I'm finding it rather cathartic. I already expressed my real opinion several posts ago. It looks ok, I'll try it if I get a PS4 and it shows up on sale. The rest has just been for fun.

[Mirage]

Please don't mix frame interpolation up with actual higher framerate content. They aren't the same and never will be.

People thought the Hobbit was weird because it was unusual. If your eyes suddenly went digital and operated at 24 or 48 fps, you'd think the real world suddenly started looking extremely weird too.

High framerates without motion blur allow the eyes to function like they normally do, even when watching a recorded image. There are diminishing returns, but in certain circumstances, even 300 fps could be helpful over "just" 60.

[Rostum]

Honestly, at this point I'm just arguing for the sake of arguing.

Isn't that you on this forum in a nutshell?