RPG and Action RPG

[Pumpkin]

So I'm sorting out the genres of my top games list and I notice some are classified (according to Google) as RPG and others as action RPG. I'm really not good with genres, so could someone give me a rundown on what some key differences and similarities are?

And for the purpose of more discussion, which do you prefer and why? Thanks for the help

[Mirage]

Basically, a RPG turns into an action RPG if hits/misses depend on your weapon/spell's hitbox colliding with the target's hitbox. It's kind of the same mechanic that's used to determine if attacks in action games (such as for example devil may cry, bayonetta and even street fighter) succeed.

FF12 is not an action RPG even if it might look like one for someone who hasn't played it (although it has some action-like elements). Hits/misses are determined by your stats (unless you are out of range), not whether or not your character's weapon moved through the target's position. Practically all tales games and star ocean games are action RPGs, and so are all the recent elder scroll games (i actually don't know about 1 and 2), the new fallout games, secret of mana games, and the mass effect games. They all require you as the player to directly execute an attack at the right time and in the right place.

Almost no final fantasy games are action RPGs, except the upcoming FF15. FF10-2, and 13 1-3 kind of slightly dip into a grey area, because attacks can be interrupted by your own attacks, and movement resulting from one command can block another character from executing an attack and also move you in and out of areas of effect. I guess you could say it has action elements in the same way some first person shooters have RPG elements.

I guess FF11 and 14 also kind of blur the lines, but they are not pure action RPGs. They don't emply hitboxes and you can't just backstep to avoid a standard attack that was initiated while you were in range.

Action RPGs almost always use a real-time battle system, although many allow you to freeze time while selecting spells or items. Regular RPGs usually have a turn based system in one way or another. ATB is still turn based but not as static and absolute as the pure turn based systems used in FF1-3.

Personally, I often lean towards action RPGs. I like to be able to overcome statistical disadvantages by simply being really good.

[metagloria]

Practically all tales games and star ocean games are action RPGs

Whaaaaat no no no no no. Don't let the dressing fool you, those games are very much still standard RPGs, just with more movement involved in the combat system.

Action RPGs almost never have transitions from exploration to combat. Enemies just come at you and you have to deal with them in real time as you walk around. Kingdom Hearts is a great non-WRPG example of this. Dirge of Cerberus also shades more toward action RPG than shooter (especially since it's not first-person).

Crisis Core is kind of blurry.

[Pumpkin]

Google called SO4 an action RPG so

I dunno. Genres confuse me

[Mirage]

I disagree. SO3 and 4 are action RPGs. But sure, the standard modes have assists that move you into range before attacking. That can be turned off later, however, at least in SO3.

I don't consider screen changes (or lack thereof) to be a defining trait of action RPGs.

Additionally, you can dodge projectiles by moving around, even if they are homing on you, that's another indication that it is an action RPG as well.

[Del Murder]

I agree with Mirage's definition, though the distinction can be confusing. For example, Dragon Age Origins seems like a standard RPG but Dragon Age II is more action RPG. But they are also very similar and I could see them classified in either way.

[Jibril]

Action RPGs almost never have transitions from exploration to combat. Enemies just come at you and you have to deal with them in real time as you walk around. Kingdom Hearts is a great non-WRPG example of this. Dirge of Cerberus also shades more toward action RPG than shooter (especially since it's not first-person).

That doesn't make any sense. Combat genre isn't dictated by the method the game uses to present the combat.

[VeloZer0]

It wouldn't make sense if it was a rigid definition instead of a feature that is observed to be common in the genre.

[Madame Adequate]

Another definition of ARPG, and the one I tend to use myself, is the sort of game Diablo is - often light on the role-playing elements, but where you wade through an absolute troutton of enemies to gain ever better loot.

This definition is definitely more common in the PC sphere though.

[Jibril]

It wouldn't make sense if it was a rigid definition instead of a feature that is observed to be common in the genre.

Not sure what you mean.

Video games are modular by nature. There are sets of modules that are common within a genre but each one is ultimately interchangeable with anything else. Tales looks like an action RPG, plays like an action RPG and behaves like an action RPG in every way aside from the fact that battles take place on a separate map. It would be silly to consider it inherently different because of that, and I think if you do, you're being pedantic. The "video game genre" is already a pretty meaningless set of labels that need to be reconsidered, and this isn't doing it any favors. Trying to interpret current genres literally, figuratively or in a historical context doesn't lead you down any productive roads and is a gigantic barrier in front of meaningful discourse. Something something Newton's flaming laser sword.

As Mister Adequate points out, the name of the genre isn't even consistent within itself. In PC gaming, "action RPG" essentially means "Diablo-like." Diablo doesn't have anything beyond the most rudimentary form of collision detection. I think battle screen transitions are okay.

[Pike]

Another definition of ARPG, and the one I tend to use myself, is the sort of game Diablo is - often light on the role-playing elements, but where you wade through an absolute troutton of enemies to gain ever better loot.

This definition is definitely more common in the PC sphere though.

This.

I consider action-RPGs to be isometric view lootfest games a la Diablo.

I do realize and accept that this definition is largely applied to CRPGs and WRPGs (aka the ones I tend to play) whereas I'm on a JRPG forum. xD

[Pumpkin]

Google calls the tales series RPG's and not ARPGs

I'm so confused about everything

It doesn't matter much I'm mostly just curious since people do use them to label types of games and I wanted to see what my preferred genres were. So if people mention like an ARPG I'd know if I like those types of games or not? Not sure if making sense

[metagloria]

How about this:

An action RPG is an action/adventure style game with RPG elements. If the RPG elements weren't there, it would just be an action/adventure game.

[Egami]

^ But what constitutes an RPG element? Where does one draws the line? I think it doesn't do to see these labels as something set in stone but as constantly evolving. RPGs themselves seem to be turning more action oriented in general.

[Fox]

I generally call Tales games Action RPGs, so I agree with Mirage's definition. I'd never really thought of it that was before, but the hitbox thing is a really good way of separating the two. Perhaps another way of saying it is that Action RPGs rely on reflexes and 'twitch' skill whereas other RPGs only really require tactics. That definition would allow things like Diablo to also be classed an an ARPG as rapid clicking is required for positioning, dodging etc, much like in a Tales or Star Ocean game.

FFVII, on the other hand, is all "select a command from a menu". Reflexes don't matter at all.

For the record though I will say this: game genres are sketchy at best, and 'RPG' is probably one of the worst and most vague of the lot. I tend to just lump them in as 'RPG' and then describe particular themes and mechanics, rather than trying to place it in a sub-genre. You'll lose years of your life trying to figure out, for instance, why so many people put Final Fantasy and Valkyria Chronicles in the same genre.