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Thread: Active Time Report 6.0 Stella's Fate Revealed!

  1. #76
    Jinx's Avatar
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    Okay. Fair enough. xD I just feel like a lot of the responses have been "HOW DARE YOU NOT BE INTERESTED IN SOMETHING SIMPLY BECAUSE IT DOESN'T HAVE THIS THING!!!!" which is frankly just silly. You mentioned lack of non-caricature minority characters, and you're right. And if you said you weren't interested in playing the game because of lack of representation or poor representation, I'd think your reasoning was as valid as any other.

    I don't think the story is anti-female, just that's it's male-centric and it makes me less inclined to play it. I'm interested in FFvsXIII, not FFXV. If someone else had a copy of the game and offered to let me borrow it, I would definitely play it. But I'm not going to go out of my way to play something that doesn't interest me either. Same reason I don't watch Breaking Bad: even though people have said it's one of the greatest shows of all time, it just doesn't interest me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fynn View Post
    Jinx you are absolutely smurfing insane. Never change.

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    Recognized Member Shorty's Avatar
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    I don't think anti-female is correctly how I feel. Uninclusive to the degree I would prefer is more how I would phrase it. Was it really truly totally necessary to axe Luna with so many male characters who can't all be of such esteemed value? Granted, we don't really know the true value of Stella, either; she could have been worthless.

    I just feel like questioning why her out of all of the rest of the entourage. Surely one of them was expendable. It lessens my interest in a game whose creators would take that move when there were most likely other probable options.

  3. #78
    Huh? Flower?! What the hell?! Administrator Psychotic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinx View Post
    Okay. Fair enough. xD I just feel like a lot of the responses have been "HOW DARE YOU NOT BE INTERESTED IN SOMETHING SIMPLY BECAUSE IT DOESN'T HAVE THIS THING!!!!" which is frankly just silly.
    If my posts have come across as that then welp, my bad, as it's not my intention.

    It calls back to that old adage of everyone being entitled to an opinion. Well, sure, but it works both ways. I'm entitled to an opinion on your opinion. And heck you're entitled to an opinion on my opinion of your opinion. And that's a discussion! If you were having a discussion in visitor messages and I suddenly burst in and started opinioning all over them I'd be an asshole, but conversely posting an opinion in a public discussion like this is just implicit permission to respond to that opinion. If we didn't respond to or interact with each other then forums would be boring as trout, and if people with differing opinions didn't challenge or discuss them with each other we'd never learn or grow. I don't think there's a sense of "How dare you post opinions! Hand in your opinion badge and gun!" but more "Oh, you think X? I don't get it because I think Y. Why do you think X?"

    On the topic at hand, I'll try to clarify. I, too, would prefer all games to have protagonists that looked like me or a giant death walrus with lightsaber tusks but the difference is that it's not a dealbreaker if it doesn't. It intrigues me that people who are ostensibly fans of the Final Fantasy series are washing their hands of the game based on a reason that I don't get, and I'm trying to get it. I'm not saying that reason isn't real for them just because I don't get it and I'm not going to show up at anyone's house with a gun and a copy of FFXV and say "surprise mothersmurfer" either.

    I also think there's too many what ifs and far too little information to actually go on with regards to Stella, Luna and other females and their roles in the game. I've posted about Noctis's retinue and Cindy because I've spent time with them in the demo. I have no idea what the full game has in store and, beyond assuming that Luna is going to have a big role to play and that Stella was cut because her story simply wasn't working, I wouldn't want to guess much more.

  4. #79
    Jinx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychotic View Post
    I, too, would prefer all games to have protagonists that looked like me or a giant death walrus with lightsabre tusks
    I think we can meet on common ground and say that would be a smurfing sweet game.

    For the record, I haven't "washed my hands of it". I'm not boycotting the game or saying it's not worth playing simply because it lacks things that are important to me or would cause me to be interested in it. It's more just...there IS getting off of this hype train we're on. And I got off at the last station.

    But if people enjoy the game, cool. Have fun.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fynn View Post
    Jinx you are absolutely smurfing insane. Never change.

  5. #80
    Free-range Human Recognized Member Lawr's Avatar
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    Oh yeah sorry for exaggeration by saying anti-female.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jinx View Post
    Okay. Fair enough. xD I just feel like a lot of the responses have been "HOW DARE YOU NOT BE INTERESTED IN SOMETHING SIMPLY BECAUSE IT DOESN'T HAVE THIS THING!!!!" which is frankly just silly.
    Ignore them they're so irrelevant!


    Quote Originally Posted by Shorty View Post
    I don't think anti-female is correctly how I feel. Uninclusive to the degree I would prefer is more how I would phrase it. Was it really truly totally necessary to axe Luna with so many male characters who can't all be of such esteemed value? Granted, we don't really know the true value of Stella, either; she could have been worthless.

    I just feel like questioning why her out of all of the rest of the entourage. Surely one of them was expendable. It lessens my interest in a game whose creators would take that move when there were most likely other probable options.
    Honeybunch you're right! Everyone got an updated look but it does seem like she's the only one whose actual role in the story got drastically changed. That would irk me too if Barrett was supposed to have Delita (I'm gonna say Delita and Tietra are black too. Please guys let us have this one!) from Final Fantasy Tactics levels of character development but then ended up being...well Barrett. But I didn't even see it that way until you said something, you was just gonna let me rant in my ignorance all day long huh?



    Edit
    I still think they'll do a bang up job with Luna though!
    placeholder_text.jpeg

  6. #81
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    Chances are, they was nothing about Stella beyond the trailers to begin with. I wouldn't be surprised if the original "script" was basically just a notepad with some ideas Nojima and Nomaru had discussed and there was no real solid ideas whatsoever. Luna was obviously born from those ideas from the notes but may have shifted from what the concept trailers were implying and changed her name so players wouldn't be surprised that said scenes from the concept trailers never made it in.

    I get the impression from the interviews and how quickly Tabata has been to release info on the game that nothing really solid had been done for most of the time fans thought Versus XIII was in development. I get the impression even Nomura couldn't tell you what Versus XIII would have looked like as a finished product because he never did enough work on it to have a solid idea himself. Same with Nojima, because if he had a script already written up, there wouldn't be any reason to change it beyond money concerns, but the fact it has been changed so much tells me there may not have been a solid concept to begin with, like the staff was working with a rough draft of the script (which happened with XII as well) and just had to do with it what they could. There is also the issue of the game now trying to fit into the traditional FF mold; Versus XIII was suppose to be a radical departure from the series norm, and while XV is keeping elements of that, it does seem like Tabata is working with fan feedback to try and shift it more into mainstream success, so that too would qualify for changes in the script.

    Versus XIII has had such a shadowy and troubled production that I really don't see why people would be surprised or disappointed that it has dramatically changed from the concept trailers. I can't think of a game that spent close to ten years in development hell and not come out being somewhat disappointing. I think FFXV has a shot to be a real gem but I almost wonder if would have been smarter to just pull the plug on Versus XIII and just let Tabata, or some other director not named Toriyama, to just start fresh with an original FFXV.

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    Resident Critic Ayen's Avatar
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    The only thing I was ever genuinely interested in when the game was still Versus XIII was Stella, or what little we knew about her. Though I somehow mistook her rapier for a staff, I liked her look and weapon. When I learned the game would only allow you to play as the men, I lost interest as I would've preferred to play as Stella. I didn't wash my hands clean until they put Cidney in something a stripper would wear. Same reason I won't be getting Metal Gear Solid V as they did the same thing with Quiet. If that never happened then this latest news would've killed my interest in the game even further. Not being able to play as Stella is one thing, having her revamped in such a drastic way is quite another.

    As for "we have such little information to go on" well, yeah. More news could come out later that turns things around and recapture interest, but people have a tendency to react to what they see when they see it. That's why when DmC was first making the rounds all people could talk about was his bloody hair.

  8. #83
    Huh? Flower?! What the hell?! Administrator Psychotic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToriJ View Post
    Not being able to play as Stella is one thing, having her revamped in such a drastic way is quite another.
    Why is altering a character who wasn't working a bad thing?

  9. #84
    Resident Critic Ayen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychotic View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ToriJ View Post
    Not being able to play as Stella is one thing, having her revamped in such a drastic way is quite another.
    Why is altering a character who wasn't working a bad thing?
    Why do you say Stella wasn't working? From the sound of it she was working quite well as far as fan reaction went. Meanwhile Luna is mostly getting a great big "Meh."

    But to answer your question, it's because before she could have at least been in the background, now she's not there at all.

  10. #85
    Huh? Flower?! What the hell?! Administrator Psychotic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToriJ View Post
    Why do you say Stella wasn't working?
    That's not me saying that, that's Hajime Tabata saying that. Watch the video in the OP! (37:49, you're welcome)

    In the Lord of the Rings, Aragorn was originally going to be a hobbit called Trotter, because that was the sound his wooden feet made. This is absolutely true, you can look that up. Stella is Trotter. Luna is Aragorn.

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    Resident Critic Ayen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychotic View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ToriJ View Post
    Why do you say Stella wasn't working?
    That's not me saying that, that's Hajime Tabata saying that. Watch the video in the OP! (37:49, you're welcome)
    That's unfortunate, but I understand better now.

  12. #87

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    I don't think people have a lot of faith in Squeenix anymore. And understandably so. I know Tabata is a different story than any regular generic Squeenix producer or director, but we haven't seen enough of his work to be sure, and we know he's not the only cook with his fingers in the pot. Producer meddling is not uncommon. And I can safely say that in my opinion Square definitely did drop the ball regarding FFX and XIII. Such horrible storytelling and cliche characters and lots of ridiculous garbage. When they take away something good, it's completely reasonable for people to feel unsure if they'd put something good back in its place

    I'm obviously not in the Stella camp, but I can totally understand where they're coming from. Square's track record would lead one to believe this is just a bad idea. It would have been more reassuring to find out they tweaked the story a little to make Stella work, rather than tweaking Stella to make the story work

    I have no reason to believe they changed her because wasn't working. They've made bigger decisions based on more ridiculous reasons. It'll be a long time before they come out and tell the full story, so even though Tabata is awesome, I'll take that kind of negative press release information with a grain of salt. Not because I don't trust Tabata. But because I don't trust Square to make rational decisions

    Plus I think it's a little silly that they don't try to paint Luna in a better light if they wanted everyone to accept her as a replacement and get over it more quickly. Perhaps they should have done a little more reveal on her when they dropped this bomb. It sounds like they haven't done anything. So we're still left with her meekly sitting at a dinner table looking awkward. Nobody ever got the impression that Stella was going to be meek and awkward

    First impressions

    Or, impressions in general. The reveals for them gave vastly different impressions. And while Luna's wasn't inherently negative, it's not exactly positive either

    So I think they should just reveal some more stuff about her and give us a reason to stand behind her

    I haven't washed my hands of anything, because I hadn't really formed an opinion on Stella. But I'm not particularly fond of what I've seen of Luna so far, so given the choice, I would have personally preferred what they were depicting with Stella. But I'm willing to give Luna a chance. They had just better give me a reason to



  13. #88
    Lovely Gal Night Fury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vyk View Post
    I don't think people have a lot of faith in Squeenix anymore. And understandably so.
    For me it boils down to exactly this. I don't have any faith in them anymore. Already it's taken them SO DAMN LONG to make this game, which is one thing. Then all of a sudden there are no playable females which made me feel a bit 'meh'. Then I saw Cidney. Then was the demo that I didn't like all that much. I feel like it's just not going to be my kind of game in the same way that Type-0 wasn't either. I just didn't fancy it.

    If there was a playable female I might have been a bit more swayed towards picking it up, but I'm just not at all. And I really think this game is going to be troute - just from what I've seen and heard of it. It's not my kind of Final Fantasy.


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    A lot has been said since my last post that I haven't had much of a chance to read. I just want to say that I'm sorry if my post came across as too judgmental or anything. I honestly don't care much if people are turned off by this game and don't want to play it. There are lots of factors we've seen so far that could lead to people feeling that way. I think that the knee jerk reaction to the Stella stuff just comes from already having so many negative reactions to the game with Cidney, all male cast, etc that it's easy to just immediately see this as a negative thing. All I'm saying is that we literally have nothing but a couple of seconds to go on for Luna, and I don't understand how people have such strong opinions about her as a character. She may be trout. She might not be. Who knows. I don't fault someone for not wanting this game due to other things that go against their tastes though. I don't fault people for being sad that we are missing out on some of the scenes that were there from the beginning. Really, it all comes down to the fact that Square should never have shown us ANYTHING about Versus XIII until Tabata took over considering work likely wasn't getting done on it throughout the time Nomura was "directing" it.

    I have to agree with Wolf Kanno that most of the stuff we saw involving characters in the original concept trailers and such probably didn't exist much more outside of those trailers. It's likely Stella was just this cool concept that was never fleshed out past what we saw, and it just didn't completely mesh with the direction Tabata is going. I hope Luna can end up being an improvement over Stella when it comes to the world and story being created, but we'll have to wait to see. I'd love to see if more was actually worked on for this game during the Nomura years though if we ever get a translation for the likely Ultimania that will appear for this game.

  15. #90
    Radical Dreamer Fynn's Avatar
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    On the topic of Cindy - didn't Tabata say they'd tone her down, since he never intended her to be so fetishy?

    Lawr: Marach and Rapha were definitely black I think there were also black characters in Vagrant Story. Matsuno seems to care, at least a bit.

    I also think all these announcements just have terrible timing concerning certain... events in gaming that really brought gender issues to the front.

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