Game of Thrones: Where Do We Go From Here? A Thread Of Speculation And Spoilers

[The Captain]

So, 5 Seasons down, 5 books down. Almost a whole year before we definitely get more GOT (Maybe less if book 6 is somehow finished before the end of the 2015).

Time to speculate on where we're heading!

Something that is very interesting to me is how the conclusions reached in the TV series could differ from the books. With many changes being made to the fates or purposes of characters, how will they still reach the same(ish) conclusion? Martin more or less revealed his endgame to the showrunners but it's the details that I find worth investigating.


Obviously, if you're not all caught up, SPOILERS ABOUND











Ok.


First off, I think what really needs to be further fleshed out now is what exactly the "Others"/White Walkers purpose is. As has been said over and over, Martin is no fan of just good and evil. Up until now, they are just seen as some lumbering, lurking power of death. It is my distinct belief that these last two books/seasons of TV will finally give us insight in to what they are and what they want.

Who holds the key here? I think it's good old Sam Tarly. Heading to Oldtown will give him access to all of the lost knowledge of Westeros. That must be the linchpin of everything going on, buried somewhere in an old library.

What do you think he finds? That somehow, The Others are here to restore balance perhaps? That we (meaning humans) made a pact with them all those many years ago? That death is really the best possible outcome when you play the GoT?

His findings, along with further misadventures of Dany abroad remain the real heart of this story, but why? I don't think everything ends with her riding back home with her dragons and conquering all. That's far too happy and cliched. Instead, what if the tables have turned and Dany is actually the villain of everything? An agent of chaos that will shake up the world, resulting in the deaths of millions? Then, she has a choice, fulfill this destiny and ride headlong in to the destruction her return would bring or take a new way and give up the throne altogether, perhaps even kill her dragons, who are the literal manifestation of chaos and power.

If this is the case, why does the show and to a lesser extent books give us so much attention to the power struggles of the Iron Throne? Isn't that a really small matter with the looming death now waiting right at the Wall? Is each POV going to end with a White Walker murdering them as they scheme for how to overcome their rival?

To borrow a lesson from another TV show, "The Sopranos", the politics of GoT is like the mob violence on that show. It's not really what it's about but is the background noise that gives each character meaning and purpose. "The Sopranos" was really about a man at war with himself, in conflict over whether he could overcome his past and try to lead a life as a somewhat decent person instead of constantly taking the more base, "easy" ways out. Perhaps Dany is at war with herself too? Does she take the "easy" way, the way of death an dragons? Or the hard, more moral choice of ending the endless cycle of death by never returning home?

As I speculated, half-jokingly elsewhere, maybe the series and TV show end with the dawning of democracy. Or at least, the end of a King or Queen ruling over everything. The "Others" usher in the idea that we cannot look to one person as our savior but have to be our own heroes since the flow of time and nature does not stop for any one man, woman or dragon.


So, what do you think is ahead for us?


Take care all.

[Ergroilnin]

Something that is very interesting to me is how the conclusions reached in the TV series could differ from the books. With many changes being made to the fates or purposes of characters, how will they still reach the same(ish) conclusion? Martin more or less revealed his endgame to the showrunners but it's the details that I find worth investigating.

Easily.

[The Captain]

So long as it doesn't end with a Journey song or an ad for Soda.....

[blackmage_nuke]

Obvious conclusion

[Shorty]

First off, I think what really needs to be further fleshed out now is what exactly the "Others"/White Walkers purpose is. As has been said over and over, Martin is no fan of just good and evil. Up until now, they are just seen as some lumbering, lurking power of death. It is my distinct belief that these last two books/seasons of TV will finally give us insight in to what they are and what they want.

You know, I've been thinking about what it is you say here. I think it's true that he's not fond of portraying characters through which we experience the story as either good nor evil. I think his choice in not boxing them into good and evil roles is to provide a narration on the fluidity of humanity, desperation, and circumstance. Having said that, I think that many of the themes he installs in the series do in fact revolve around good and evil, even though they are much more subtext to the stances of the characters situations and happenings in the story.

With the white walkers as the ultimate foe, I think that in the end, it very well could be a story about good and evil.

Anyway.

I do hope that we go full force into white walker territory, since that is basically why I have been watching since the beginning. Winter needs to get here so that everyone in Westeros can see that their game of thrones means nothing and that they are completely smurfed. Everyone's stories are climaxing or have climaxed with the exception of a couple of characters that we hope to see in the next season or so, so beside Dany's conquest to Westeros (if it ever comes), focus on the Wall and the white walkers is really the most sensible direction for the story to move.

[The Captain]

One interesting theory I saw somewhere that could shift the axis is the whole notion of a pact of an uneasy peace between the First Men, the Children of the Forest and The Others, to essentially mind each other's own business. The Wall is there to keep the men from conquering the far north since that is where non humans dwell and in the past, men have been known to slaughter and not be very interested in working together. It is not there just to protect from the Others coming down but also from humans going too far up. The Wildlings survive up there because they make sacrifices to the Others, paying them respect and fear.

Dany and her dragons are capable of wrecking that pact, which would in turn unleash the full fury of The Others on the world, so instead of saving the world, she'd unintentionally bring about its ruin. Stopping her is the only thing that will keep the world from falling in to total disaster... making her a sort of de facto villain.

If this holds true, what I could see happening is that Jon Snow is brought back as a figurehead for The Others to combat Dany with only someone in a neutral position (Bran? Tyrion?) being able to keep them from destroying each other and in turn everyone.

The series is called a Song of Ice And Fire, which to me could mean that, like any song, there is a mix of chaotic different notes and instruments (humans, dragons, Red God, Drowning God, Others) that somehow finds a perfect balance and turns into something greater than any of its parts.

[Shorty]

If this holds true, what I could see happening is that Jon Snow is brought back as a figurehead for The Others to combat Dany with only someone in a neutral position (Bran? Tyrion?) being able to keep them from destroying each other and in turn everyone.

This is entirely excellent and I had not once considered this before. Well done with your speculation!

[Ayen]

I like all of Captain theories so far and want them all to come true.

Right now the only thing I expect is Cersei getting her revenge on the cult through the Iron Giant. I also want her to kill the Sand Snakes.

I don't like the Sand Snakes.

[Madame Adequate]

My guess is that next season we're going to see one of two things: Davos joins the Black Brothers and leads them to a glorious victory over the White Walkers, or the Wall falls to them and the true invasion of the Seven Kingdoms begins. I'm not even convinced we're watching a show where the Seven Kingdoms stand, let alone get reunited, anymore - this could just as easily now be about how the entire continent gets destroyed and overrun.

Each consecutive season/book has things get more and more grim, especially the further north you are, and now we're in a position where many of Westeros' great commanders, or those with the potential for it, are dead - Jon Snow, Tywin Lannister, Ned Stark, Robb Stark, Stannis Baratheon - there are increasingly few people left who have the capacity to command. Davos can command, but to what degree he can do so strategically, and to what degree he would want to with Stannis and family destroyed, is another matter. Ser Alliser can command as well, but he's too rigid and lacks the vision needed, and the Night's Watch sure as hell doesn't have the men anyway, even if a handful of Stannis' deserters happened to join up.

Jaime Lannister and Roose Bolton are probably the main other ones remaining that we know of, but I don't know whether Roose is that good a commander as opposed to a political mover who makes sure he goes into battles having already got a big upper hand. That is an excellent strategic policy in normal times, but it's not much use against the White Walkers. It would be a fitting completion of Jaime's redemption if he ended up leading armies against the Night or something, but I'm not sure if that would be wise given his missing hand, or whether men would follow him if he can't actually lead charges and suchlike. I guess if the Blackfish ever reappears, he's another good one to have in charge, but you've got to figure he's either got revenge on his mind or he's run away to the Summer Isles to stay safe.

Is Loras a good commander? I know he's a tremendous knight, but does he have any command experience/training? I think I read at least one of his elder brothers is a pretty good military man as well, so I guess there's someone who could be introduced.

Of course it's got to come down to Dany and her dragons, but even she doesn't have any particularly skilled strategists except Tyrion, and nobody's going to follow Tyrion into battle without the Lannister name meaning a great deal. Grey Worm is a good leader of the Unsullied, Daario can certainly kill people and probably handle mercs just fine, and Jorah's not without competence in the field, but there is no Stannis with tremendous experience here, nor is there a Robb with a natural knack for leadership and strategy.

Fake edit; I just remembered Sam's dad Randyll Tarly is the only man who ever won a battle against Robert Baratheon and is regarded as a tremendous strategist, so there's him at least. It seems that altogether if everyone was on the same side now there would be enough highly competent commanders to fight the White Walkers as well as can be expected, but they're not and we'll probably see a good two thirds of them dead before we see another White Walker on-screen.

[Shiny]

I speculate that Dany will attempt to be a savior, but the disobedient dragons will end up destroying the white walkers and practically everything else. After the destruction, she has no choice but to kill them. I speculate Jon Snow will gain reign of the North, but be a shell of his former self. Tyrion will probably aid Dany in some way. Jorah will be forever friend zoned.

[The Captain]

Poor Jorah. Though it sure seems like the TV series is writing his demise far quicker.


Changing gears a bit, what do we think is the purpose of the Greyjoys moving forward?


Take care all.

[Mr. Carnelian]

One interesting theory I saw somewhere that could shift the axis is the whole notion of a pact of an uneasy peace between the First Men, the Children of the Forest and The Others, to essentially mind each other's own business. The Wall is there to keep the men from conquering the far north since that is where non humans dwell and in the past, men have been known to slaughter and not be very interested in working together. It is not there just to protect from the Others coming down but also from humans going too far up. The Wildlings survive up there because they make sacrifices to the Others, paying them respect and fear.

To be honest, I'm not so keen on the idea of imbuing the White Walkers with so much motivation.

I think they work best as an essentially unknowable, implacable force. To me, they've always felt like a metaphor for the natural world, without reason and without remorse, marching on uncaring of the political struggles that dominate the human world.

More specifically, I always thought of the White Walkers as a metaphor for the Black Death, an unstoppable force beyond human understanding which swept over Medieval Europe, originating in a distant land. Even the names are somewhat similar.

Another idea which a friend suggested to me a while ago was that the White Walkers are a metaphor for climate change. This seems increasingly credible, given the strong connection we saw between the White Walkers and the weather in their attack on the Wildling camp. From this perspective, Game of Throne can viewed as a critique of our modern response to climate change: just as most of the Seven Kingdoms are too busy worrying about the throne to pay attention to the White Walkers, most of us are too busy with our own concerns to worry about climate change.

So basically, I'm all in favour of us NOT finding out more about the White Walkers. What's wrong with a bit of mystery?

[The Captain]

To be honest, I'm not so keen on the idea of imbuing the White Walkers with so much motivation.

I think they work best as an essentially unknowable, implacable force. To me, they've always felt like a metaphor for the natural world, without reason and without remorse, marching on uncaring of the political struggles that dominate the human world.

More specifically, I always thought of the White Walkers as a metaphor for the Black Death, an unstoppable force beyond human understanding which swept over Medieval Europe, originating in a distant land. Even the names are somewhat similar.

Another idea which a friend suggested to me a while ago was that the White Walkers are a metaphor for climate change. This seems increasingly credible, given the strong connection we saw between the White Walkers and the weather in their attack on the Wildling camp. From this perspective, Game of Throne can viewed as a critique of our modern response to climate change: just as most of the Seven Kingdoms are too busy worrying about the throne to pay attention to the White Walkers, most of us are too busy with our own concerns to worry about climate change.

So basically, I'm all in favour of us NOT finding out more about the White Walkers. What's wrong with a bit of mystery?

That would be one heck of a long con from Martin! Build up years upon years upon decades of history and political intrigue only to have it all just swept away by nature.

Would be quite the bait and switch.

Take care all.

[Jinx]

I like the idea that Westeros is really a future Earth after global warming and White Walkers are our descendants.

[Ayen]

Damn. This thread just got a whole lot deep.

Also:



First thing I thought of when I saw the topic title.