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Thread: Hope x Vanille II: It's Still Better than Lightning x Hope

  1. #1

    Default Hope x Vanille II: It's Still Better than Lightning x Hope



    Ever since I played FFXIII, I have been stymied by one thing. I never even knew it was a thing until I read TVTropes' YMMV page for XIII.

    Lightning/Hope being the most popular fanon ship in the series. What the hell? The YMMV page says "The Hope and Lightning Ship Tease is not very subtle." it wasn't subtle because it didn't exist at all.

    I don't care about age. I care about the fact this does not exist in the game. The relationship between Hope and Lightning isn't romantic, it's a traumatized little boy clinging to an older female authority figure. Lightning was never anything but a surrogate mother to him when he needed someone.

    Meanwhile, the only Ship Tease I saw in the game has never been reported on the YMMV page. I've been periodically checking for the last few years but nope. That ship of course is Hope/Vanille, which I have supported ever since their first few scenes together. In fact, I'd like the game a lot more if they had more interactions.

    But yeah Hope and Vanille ven get a whole Shipperific scene together on Pulse! And this was the "real" Hope. You know, a Hope who isn't insane with grief. In fact, both Hope and Lightning had their heads so far up their own asses when they were traveling together that it's very unlikely they ever truly saw one another at all.

    Now, you might say this is just me ranting because my ship isn't more popular, but it is popular and I have the videos and fanart to prove it. I just legitimately do not comprehend Lightning/Hope. There's nothing to it whatsoever.

    While Hope and Vanille have this:

  2. #2
    Resident Critic Ayen's Avatar
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    Rapid fandom shipping like this are never based on any hints of chemistry in said work. Most of the time it's as simple as someone going, "They look cute together. I'ma ship them!" Normally, it's harmless until it borders on creepy and then it's best just to ignore it.

    Because some people aren't looking for anything logical. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some people just want to watch the world burn.

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    Crazy Scot. Cid's Knight Shauna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ayen View Post
    Rapid fandom shipping like this are never based on any hints of chemistry in said work. Most of the time it's as simple as someone going, "They look cute together. I'ma ship them!"
    Ehhhhhh. I dunno. Shipping characters because they look good is a legitimate thing that happens, but for the most part, it's all about the characters themselves. Just because you don't see it (or in a more likely case, ship something else) doesn't mean it's not there at all in the subtext - if you want to read their relationship that way. As an example, in the Ace Attorney series, the biggest ship is Phoenix and Edgeworth. Now, I personally have never seen it. Still don't. I have never read their relationship in such a way. But many people see ~something~ and that's fine. I imagine that it is the exact same situation here.


    Either way Fang and Vanille is the correct ship so w/e

  4. #4

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    I think a big part of the Lightning x Hope's popularity is from the fact that Snow and Serah are canonical, Vanille and Fang are pretty much canonical, and Sazh is old, so if youre a person who wants to ship, theres not many options for either except each other.

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    Yes homo Mr. Carnelian's Avatar
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    No, no, you've got it all wrong!

    Lightning/Odin is the only ship worth sailing on.

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    Resident Critic Ayen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shauna View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Ayen View Post
    Rapid fandom shipping like this are never based on any hints of chemistry in said work. Most of the time it's as simple as someone going, "They look cute together. I'ma ship them!"
    Ehhhhhh. I dunno. Shipping characters because they look good is a legitimate thing that happens, but for the most part, it's all about the characters themselves. Just because you don't see it (or in a more likely case, ship something else) doesn't mean it's not there at all in the subtext - if you want to read their relationship that way. As an example, in the Ace Attorney series, the biggest ship is Phoenix and Edgeworth. Now, I personally have never seen it. Still don't. I have never read their relationship in such a way. But many people see ~something~ and that's fine. I imagine that it is the exact same situation here.
    Valid point. My experience with shippers have been poor to say the least.

    I actually do get the Wright/Edgeworth thing.

  7. #7
    Yes homo Mr. Carnelian's Avatar
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    If Vanille and Fang didn't seem so plausible, I could buy Hope and Vanille. Lightning and Hope, however, makes NO sense to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ayen View Post
    I actually do get the Wright/Edgeworth thing.
    They're hiding their true feelings for each other behind confrontation. Miles always lets him win, because he knows how much the cases mean to Phoenix. And they can be so adorably awkward around each other outside of the courtroom.

    God, guys, just kiss already.

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    Crazy Scot. Cid's Knight Shauna's Avatar
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    I was saying that I, personally, don't see it. Not that I don't believe the subtext is there!

  9. #9

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    Fang/Vanille is overrated.

    I don't even remember Fang doing anything in XIII, much less being OBVIOUS lesbians with Vanille.

    Well I do remember that one time she tortured Vanille in order to make Vanille's Eidolon appear. So romantic.

  10. #10
    Yes homo Mr. Carnelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forsaken Lover View Post
    Fang/Vanille is overrated.

    I don't even remember Fang doing anything in XIII, much less being OBVIOUS lesbians with Vanille.

    Well I do remember that one time she tortured Vanille in order to make Vanille's Eidolon appear. So romantic.
    They fit the stereotypical butch/femme dynamic, much is made of how they're "closer than family", and at the end of the game they're LITERALLY locked in an eternal (well, 1000 years, anyway) embrace. It couldn't be made any more obvious without them openly admitting that they're lovers.

    It becomes SO obvious that they love each other in Lightning Returns that it's almost painful.

    JUST ADMIT THEY'RE LOVERS, SQUARE ENIX!
    Last edited by Mr. Carnelian; 07-22-2015 at 12:57 AM.

  11. #11
    'Just Friends' Formalhaut's Avatar
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    I suppose it boils down to Japan being rather slow on this front, I guess in regards to Fang and Vanille.


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    Resident Critic Ayen's Avatar
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    Didn't stop Uranus and Neptune in Sailor Moon. Unless the creator of Sailor Moon is in the minority.

  13. #13
    Yes homo Mr. Carnelian's Avatar
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    Upon second examination, I think this scene is actually further evidence of Vanille and Fang's relationship, rather than a Hope and Vanille romantic moment.

    You know the point where Vanille goes "I didn't know you felt that way"? The reason she's so distressed is that she's trying to work out a way to let Hope down gently without outing herself.

  14. #14

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    ....that's a helluva reach. I'm pretty sure Vanille wasn't sincerely distressed in the slightest there. Nothing about her voice or demeanor belies real anxiety at Hope's apparent feelings for her.]

    Also the writer of Sailor Moon is a chick and the manga was written for girls. That could have played a factor. FFXIII is hardcore shounen and I can't think of any openly lesbian prominent females in shounen.

  15. #15
    Yes homo Mr. Carnelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forsaken Lover View Post
    ....that's a helluva reach. I'm pretty sure Vanille wasn't sincerely distressed in the slightest there. Nothing about her voice or demeanor belies real anxiety at Hope's apparent feelings for her.
    Vanille often plays things very sweet and girly. It's seems to be her defense mechanism against unwanted male attention when she's scared.

    You know that scene when Vanille and Sazh are first sleeping alone together? Some people say it's "cute", but to me it seemed like Vanille had a legitimate fear of sexual violence: she doesn't know this man. Because she knows that she's no match for him physically, she exaggerates her childlike qualities in order to make Sazh think of her as someone to be protected, rather than a sexual object.

    I'm not saying that there's anywhere near the same level of fear in this scene. But, revealing that you have a non-standard sexuality can be quite frightening, even if it's to someone you like and know quite well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Forsaken Lover View Post
    Also the writer of Sailor Moon is a chick and the manga was written for girls. That could have played a factor. FFXIII is hardcore shounen and I can't think of any openly lesbian prominent females in shounen.
    Hence why they covered it up.

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