God's Football 2015-2016 season thread

[Psychotic]

David De Gea is the best keeper on the planet and if United lose him and don't make significant improvements on the squad BoB listed I can't see a top four finish next season, Mourinho or no. A couple of good young prospects in there and a few solid Premier League players, but keeper aside there aren't any world class players in there. Still, you can't help but think if they do get Jose - or rather, if they want him, it's pretty obvious he wants them with all the endless media flirting he's doing - they would give him some considerable funds.

[Formalhaut]

I'm not an expert on squad formation and players (the transfer window really flies past me, honestly), but I'm not sure Mourinho would do wonders for Man United. He's coming off the back of a disastrous end to his Chelsea career, and as others have said I'm just not sure how well he will gel with the team. He's a short-term fix, at best.

[Psychotic]

Consider that Claudio Ranieri had a much worse time as Greece manager than Mourinho did as Chelsea manager! Though you're right that Mou is very much a short term manager. Which isn't a bad thing, actually. Since Ferguson left it's always felt as though those associated with United - former players in the media, fans and such like - have been unable to get past a "we need a long term successor to build an empire" mindset when the reality is that modern football just doesn't work that way anymore. When Wenger receives his long overdue P45/retirement pension it'll be the end of an era.

[Formalhaut]

Consider that Claudio Ranieri had a much worse time as Greece manager than Mourinho did as Chelsea manager! Though you're right that Mou is very much a short term manager. Which isn't a bad thing, actually. Since Ferguson left it's always felt as though those associated with United - former players in the media, fans and such like - have been unable to get past a "we need a long term successor to build an empire" mindset when the reality is that modern football just doesn't work that way anymore. When Wenger receives his long overdue P45/retirement pension it'll be the end of an era.

I did actually think while I was writing that post "but didn't Ranieri get absolutely slated in the media?", so that is a good point well made. True, we shouldn't let past experience colour our impression of the manager. I still think he is a rather pompous self-centred individual who thinks too highly of himself. I wonder how the Eva Carniero dispute is going, actually.

I feel like Manchester United has had too many managers since Ferguson left. They've not had time to stabilise and settle. The problem with this current trend of 'revolving door managing' is that the manager knows they're just one bad season, even one bad run, away from danger and possible firing. That can't be good for team dynamic and it doesn't give the manager time. I see your point: long dynasties are no longer feasible in today's football (and Wenger really is holding out too long I think) but at the other end, I'm concerned about the rate at which managers leave as well.

[Old Manus]

Short 2-3 year stints is part of Mourinho's business model. He wouldn't have it any other way.

[Loony BoB]

All I know is that if I have a group of staff that don't gel, I look at the manager. But if he gets that group of staff to really gel right before I was considering firing him, I give him a fair chance and see how it plays out. The past few months are the first in which I've seen United play really nice attacking football in a very long time, with pace, aggression, etc. We're playing really well. I don't wait until a manager gets things right and then fire him. I fire him when things are going wrong or there would be no point in keeping him. So he does better, leaves, and we are back to square one again in building our team? Urgh, for the love of God, please, don't do that.

I won't cry if LVG goes but I will absolutely see it as "Oh, back to square one again." You can guarantee that Mourinho would come in with a full change of staff - again - and we all know how that affected the players last time around. Half the damn world points to the change in coaching staff as one of the biggest failings when Moyes came in, and I can absolutely understand it. Perhaps it's time for a little consistency and patience while we find the right team (which I think we have, personally).

And yeah, keeping De Gea will be more important than any other change in personnel next season. He signed a five year deal but I'm not sure if that included any kind of buy out clause for not reaching the Champions League (or otherwise). If we don't hit the CL, will DDG suddenly want to leave? I'm not sure. He apparently was really pissed off at RM for the way they handled his transfer. And four years left on his deal? We hardly are in a position to be strong-armed by player or club. Normally you'd expect it to get to three years left first.

As for "United have no world class players" - how many world class players does the Premier League have at all right now? That team I detailed may not be world class but United has generally been more famous for building world class players than keeping them, let's be frank about that much. And when we "buy world class" it generally ends up turning out pretty awful for us. I don't really see us as a club who benefits from "buying the best players" so much as from "buying the best potential". And right now, it could be argued we have a lot of the best potential already.

[Formalhaut]

It depends on what you mean by world class, really. Nowadays a 'world class' player is based on how much they are in the transfer window it feels like sometimes.

[Aerith's Knight]

Yeah, Costa, Depay, Schweinsteiger, Maria, they cost a fortune yet contributed nearly 0. Some world stars those turned out to be. Often these guys come from a team that was build around them, like RvP during his time at Arsenal, and it just doesn't work in another system.

Then again, De Gea, Blind, Martial, Mata, were all great additions, and definitely world class. Perhaps you just can't predict how it'll turn out. But having 10 world class player on your team will play out differently than having 1 and a decent team. In the latter case he shines, in the previous one there can be bitterness, jealousy, etc. I see that a lot when Depay plays, since he always wants to show off, to show that he can be worth something, and that is something you don't do in the BPL.

[Loony BoB]

You can on occasion, but you have to earn the right to. Depay has quite some way to go for that.

[Psychotic]

As for "United have no world class players" - how many world class players does the Premier League have at all right now?

13. 18 if you think whatever the smurf happened to Chelsea is just a blip and they'll reclimb the heights of last season. City have 4, Spurs have 3, Arsenal and Leicester have 2 apiece and Liverpool and United have 1. Actually, make that Liverpool have 0.3 because he's typically injured for two thirds of a season. The one and only time he wasn't we nearly won the league.

[Loony BoB]

As for "United have no world class players" - how many world class players does the Premier League have at all right now?

13. 18 if you think whatever the smurf happened to Chelsea is just a blip and they'll reclimb the heights of last season. City have 4, Spurs have 3, Arsenal and Leicester have 2 apiece and Liverpool and United have 1. Actually, make that Liverpool have 0.3 because he's typically injured for two thirds of a season. The one and only time he wasn't we nearly won the league.

Can you actually name these players so we can rip into them like they're part of a Best Video Games list or something?

[Psychotic]

Sure!

City: Kompany, Silva, De Bruyne, Aguero
Spurs: Vertonghen, Alderweireld, yes, Harry actual Kane
Leicester: Mahrez, Kante
Arsenal: Ozil, Sanchez
United: De Gea
Liverpool: Sturridge
Chelsea: Courtois, Hazard, Matic, Fabregas, Costa. But maybe none of them because smurf knows what is going on.

Honorouable mentions but not quite good enough: Hart, Sterling, Lloris, Alli, Cech, Bellerin, Vardy, Martial, pre-injury Luke Shaw (really!), Coutinho, Firmino, Willian, Lukaku, Payet, Mane, Arnautovic, Cabaye, Sigurdsson (you're welcome you cricket loving Daily Telegraph reader) etc. etc.

[Loony BoB]

There are a lot of players here that I would probably not put in the bracket of world class, and a lot of other players I'd say are better than them these days. Tough to call though, because many of them have a fantastic name to themselves but as players in their particular club at this particular time, they aren't anything outstanding in recent months. Kompany is an example - I'd prefer Smalling based on this season although I'd not have said that in seasons prior.

Also unsure regarding a lot of Chelsea players. And Sturridge, although I know you and I could argue until the cows come home regarding that. He's very good, don't get me wrong, but I'd take Vardy or Martial ahead of him. Also, Saha has most definitely taught me that injuries matter when considering who is and is not world class. Because Saha scored more goals per minute played than any other player in a high flying United side for a season or two, and that included the likes of RVN, Rooney in his prime and Ronaldo on his way up.

Likewise, if you're going by "past glories count, form is temporary, class is permanent, etc" then Schweinsteiger is definitely world class. And I still wouldn't start him. xD

I guess world class doesn't mean a huge deal these days though, in that case. I'd take "good players" over "world class players" if they former were the likes of Rashford and Martial. Compare that to "world class" players like Di Maria who can turn out to be world class flops...

[Psychotic]

Daniel Sturridge and Anthony Martial have both scored 8 Premier League goals this season. One of them has played 12 games, the other has played 28. As in, more than twice as many. Come on With that said, if persistent injuries mean a player can't be world class in your eyes then yep, fair enough.

I rate Sturridge because
(SPOILER)

Can't deny those other two fellas were world class so by those same standards...!

On Kompany:



Schweinsteiger was world class. Indeed, so was Rooney and so was Mata. The first two do seem to be past their primes though. As I've said many times in this thread, different footballers peak at different ages.

[Formalhaut]

The thing I feel with world-class marked players is that there is a ton of pressure to stay that way. They're being paid a lot (too much, I'd say) and they're expected to do better and raise the team up to greater glories. If they have a poor start acclimatising to a different way of football, or take time to form new partnerships, then fans and the manager start complaining.

One of the reasons why I love Leicester so much is how well they're doing without a massive pay check. They may have two world-class players, but the entire team is working well and is to be commended, and aren't even being paid that much compared to players in bigger teams.