"Dramatic changes" to combat in FFVII Remake confirmed

[Leigh]

Now that the main series seems to be well and truly on the road to becoming more action-orientated, in terms of the underlying combat mechanics, then I don't envision FFVII:Remake incorporating a turn-based battle schema. It's not that turn-based combat is a devolution of real-time combat, but if they're trying to replicate a cinematic experience, a la Advent Children, then keeping the encounters turn-based would just be a bizarre development and pacing choice.

Given current gaming culture, especially on consoles, to develop games to be as sensory overloading as possible; I'd be extremely surprised if they did stick to anything resembling the original game. I suppose the clue is in the choice of phrasing. "Dramatic changes" tends to sway towards an entirely new direction. I'm all for it to be honest. Although I am sure I am in the minority with this opinion...I wouldn't even mind if you only had control over Cloud. But that, by enlarge, is not in the spirit of jRPG.

[Mirage]

FFX-2's system without screen transitions would be amazing. Personally, I still love ATB, but I will say the screen transitions are annoying (especially when you're grinding or looking for a specific blue magic).

My main concern--and if it happened, I would likely not purchase the game--is that two members of your party will be AI controlled. I hate that function, especially in a Final Fantasy game, and it would completely turn me off of it. I'd probably still enjoy watching other people play the game, but hopefully SE has has enough negative feedback from doing that in past games they won't do that for this one.

The way I see it, AI controlled team mates are typically used when the devs think the combat moves too fast for the player to input commands for three characters at once. It mostly depends on how fast paced the action is, not screen transitions. You can have slower combat with three times as many command inputs, or fast combat with 1/3rd the command input. In terms of how engaging it is for the player, I think they're pretty equal and it only comes down to personal preference, not how "modern" a game is.

[Fox]

I would definitely be disappointed if we only had control of one character. I liked micro-managing every little aspect of what everyone did in the original - just because Cloud is the 'protagonist' doesn't mean he's the only character I want to play as.

I can't imagine this is the way they would go with it because it's Nomura and I assume he's going to want to 'action it up' wherever possible, but I wouldn't mind them ditching the ATB for the CTB with swap out mechanic a-la FFX. It would be nice to have everyone in your party available to jump into battle, not just your three mains. I think that could be quite a big improvement.

[Mirage]

Limiting how many characters you have and which roles they have places a stronger emphasis on party building and tactics, something I prefer over having everything and everyone available at all times.

While innovative, I think the character swapping and one character for each type of enemy is a bit gimmicky and doesn't add too much to the gameplay. The system just makes for less thinking.

[8ther]

I don't see them making Cloud the only playable character, unless he's going to fight Dyne and the events between Northern Crater and Mideel are being rewritten to have him present and well.

[Leigh]

I don't think you will only play as Cloud throughout the game. But if they do away with a turn-based combat, you have to come to the conclusion that controlling all aspects of your party at any one time would be exceptionally difficult. I suspect they'll take heed from Type-0. They'll give you the option to control different characters, but only through a switching system. Again, I wouldn't technically mind this. The battling was never the be-all-end-all for me in Final Fantasy. I never found the combat in Final Fantasy particularly engaging - it was more the whole experience that I appreciated. Back in the day, I would never have told people to play Final Fantasy VII "because the battles and action are so amazing". I'd probably have said the characters and story were pretty cool.

We all get different things out of Final Fantasy; I am sure of this. And there will always be a group of people, no matter how great the game may be, who will find dissatisfaction in certain components in one or more ways. I'm not implying that people are 'searching for criticism', but nothing in the world can tick the right boxes for everyone. For some people it may be an overhauled system of combat. For me; it would be deviating drastically from the original personalities of the characters, and the omission of elements that made up big portions of the original story. The Wall Market won't be anywhere near as goofy, which might be a sad thing, if I wear by nostalgia goggles...but I'd be interested in how they would tackle parts of the original game to fit the whole dark colour palette of 21st century takes-itself-way-too-seriously Final Fantasy.

Why remake a game if you are just going to do the same thing, but instead of using A4 paper and crayons, you're using watercolours on canvas. I'll be pretty excited to see the remake, if only to gauge Square-Enix's underlying philosophy of what they believe a fun and better gaming experience is. They're taking a game, a critically well-received and loved title, and publicly announcing that "We can make this game even better". I'm curious, especially by going off their current rather middle of the road, mediocre creative output, what they truly believe makes a good game. We will have access to a complete direct comparison.

[Fox]

Why remake a game if you are just going to do the same thing, but instead of using A4 paper and crayons, you're using watercolours on canvas.

Because why fix what isn't broke?

Actually, I think there's a better reason. I think when you remake a game, the first people it should appeal to are fans of the original. Now I have no issue with wanting to branch out further than that as well, but I think the is a reasonable expectation that the primary goal should be to satisfy the original audience. Making big changes to the story, making big changes to the game systems, these are all things that risk alienating those original players. If you can make changes and keep them happy, good job. But if I lose a lot of enjoyment from the remake because it's turned into an action game, I suck at action games, and one of the reasons I liked the original is because it wasn't an action game, then in my mind they will have failed.

As you say, they can never please everyone. Even if you were completely faithful you would get some people condemning it because Cloud's hair spikes were the wrong length. But I do think they should be attempting to keep to the spirit of the original as much as possible, because it is the original fans who enjoyed that spirit that this project is (or at least should) be being created for.

[Leigh]

I do think that Final Fantasy has outgrown the tank from which it was conceived in. I feel that they chose design specifications originally because there were hardware limitations on what was possible at the time. Judging by everything they have done recently, that has linked into the universe of Final Fantasy VII, is they have tried to encapsulate feeling of fast-paced, highly intensive action. I've never had the chance to even play Crisis Core, but from what I read, even that tried to make more of a real-time transition and provide more flexibility in the tactile nature of the combat; a more action-orientated experience requiring more input from the player through reaction time rather than the cerebral nature of strategizing and planning.

Are Square-Enix remaking this game, because they feel they can truly do justice to what their original conceptions were for the game back in the day? Or are they just submitting to the will of current gaming trends? Companies aren't loyal by nature you have to remember. They're objective, and they go by what is going to make them successful, or what they believe will make them successful, in the now. The first people who played the game might indeed be the original fans - but are we the chief demographic from a marketing perspective anymore? Do we make sense as a generation to focus on financially? I'm not a businessman; I'm purely spectulating, but younger video gamers have come to expect hyperstimulation of the ages from video games.

Final Fantasy has dipped its toe in so many genres now, in terms of the variety of spin-offs; I don't even associate it as strictly an RPG-led franchise anymore. People complain these days about the amount of FMVs in many modern AAA titles. So how can a game developer ensure that the overall feel of what they are trying to achieve can still apply, but without resorting so heavily on elaborate pre-rendered action scenes? They have to make a flexible set of control mechanics that can approximate that energy. You can't show how badass and spectacular the abilities are of all these characters, in this day and age, and still have a system that see's Cloud swing his sword once every 10-15 seconds. Can you? Maybe you'll disagree, but for me, you lose out on continunity and immersion. And today, the industry is all about immersion. Hence the big push for people sporting headgear that either belongs in the mountains of Austria, or exploring the depths of Australia's Great Barrier Reef.

Unless long-term fans just want Final Fantasy VII: Special Edition. Like Monkey Island before it; it is identical in everyway, it just featured redrawn pre-rendered backgrounds and character models. Press the Playstation button to transition from old graphics to new graphics! Monkey Island: Special Edition only exists however, because everything already existed, they just used the original concept art. Square would have to spend a lot more time and money pumping out, essentially, the same game. That's when I ask the question "but why though?!".

Why fix what is broken. A car and boat will still get you to your destination; therefore planes are not neccessary. We could probably break nearly everything we do as humans, and realize that there is no fundamental point for doing it. We simply do because we want, and sometimes its that desire for a new experience that drives us. Then you could argue: "Well why doesn't Square just make an entirely new Final Fantasy game?" It could have something to do with Square being at a loss with were to take the series next? They could be in a transitionary period, trying to understand what people want out of their games, and relying on revitalizing a franchise that has so more adoration is a good place to get your first foothold. The story is already there, loved by all. They know that can work from the get-go. Now they can fiddle around with different implementations.

Considering that their last big release was practically lambasted by long-term fans might have something to do with their choices as well. And the fact that the general public have been pretty much sh*tting conkers asking for a remake for over 10 years.

[Fox]

I think this concept of trying to break out of the limitations they lived by in the early years is such an odd attitude. That made 10 games in broadly the same formula for a decade and a half and they were consistently hugely, hugely popular games. Then we reach about 2004 and suddenly they decide there's no market for that any more. So they start working on real time stuff, phasing out the traditional systems. Sales don't reach as high and again, the assumption is we still have too many complex, archaic RPG systems. What made them think there wasn't a market for it in the first place? What about Final Fantasy X's 8 million sales made them think "Oh man... nobody's buying these games any more?!"

You can't show how badass and spectacular the abilities are of all these characters, in this day and age, and still have a system that see's Cloud swing his sword once every 10-15 seconds. Can you? Maybe you'll disagree

I do indeed, absolutely. Even in the immersive, seamless action games of the modern day, we still accept incredible stretches of that immersion for the sake of the game. Objective markers, mana bars, menus galore for your inventories and crafting, being generally in 3rd person, stick to cover systems, regenerating health, tailored difficulty curves, lock-on systems, scoring systems, skill/equipment unlocks and so on and so forth. Game mechanics that are 'unrealistic' or have no place in the game world they are found in are everywhere, and we don't notice them because that's not what immersion is about. To this day the most 'immersive' game I've ever played is FFIX. Immersion is a word that bugs me because it's something everyone wants and talks about all the time but nobody can ever agree on what provides it. Yes, as you say, standing around to wait your turn to attack is not very realistic. I grant that point. But neither is anything else you do in a video game.

In terms of spectacular abilities I'd go a step further and say a turn based system can actually actually advantageous for showing that stuff off. I don't imagine Supernova or Knights of the Round working too well in a real time combat system, I don't imagine player's would like to get pulled away from that as the solar system gets destroyed. Although maybe I'm wrong, XV has already shown it doesn't mind pausing the fight for some impressive summon cutscenes, so there's hope yet.

Final Fantasy has been struggling for the past decade because it is trying so many new things, that it is losing its identity. And instead of providing something that is almost unique amongst big budget games, it risks moving more and more towards falling into line with the rest of them. A VII remake is an excellent opportunity to refind that identity and prove you can still have games like Final Fantasy VII in the modern day on modern tech. I see no reason why that would not be the case.

Why fix what is broken. A car and boat will still get you to your destination; therefore planes are not neccessary.

If someone wants to build a plane, that's fine. But you don't do that by putting wings on a boat.

That's what SE have been doing lately, they've been trying to keep their long term core supporters happy whilst simultaneously changing everything that (not insignificantly sized) market enjoyed about the games in the first place.

[Mirage]

additionally, car enthusiasts want better cars in their garage, not airplanes

[fat_moogle]

I agree with points that both Fox and Leigh make. The overall goal here for SE is to capitalise on the success of the most popular Final Fantasy title, and at the end of the day, that's what they're doing. I'd love to see a remake of Final Fantasy VII with its original turn based format if they got rid of random encounters. I can't be dealing with that -_- Maybe if they made it like the upcoming DQXI, where monsters roam and when you approach it brings up a turn based battle screen without any transition.

If it turned out to be more action orientated though I really wouldn't mind, providing that the materia system was still in place and Cloud isn't the only playable character. Nomura planned to have all the party playable in FF Versus XIII so there's hope he'll do the same for FFVIIr.

[maybee]

I don't see them making Cloud the only playable character, unless he's going to fight Dyne and the events between Northern Crater and Mideel are being rewritten to have him present and well.

Unless maybe you just play as Barrett and Cid during those special moments and you get Cloud's stats, levels and materia ?

[Zanmato]

It's not a remake... I'd say it's a reboot.
Because remake is based on the old game and it's enhanced, like HD and stuff.
It looks like a reboot definitely to me, because they're doing a new game actually, which is based storywise on the classic VII.
Am I right?

that's Enhanced Ports and HD Remaster/Remixes you're thinking about... a remake starts over from the script and character designs... so it really does look more like a remake which is exactly what i was hoping for... though baring that, an enhanced port would have been just fine by me...

I understand it now.
Thank you for the answer! ^^

[Bright Shield]

additionally, car enthusiasts want better cars in their garage, not airplanes

Indeed. This sums it up perfectly. There's room for both cars and airplanes. There is however, no reason at all to try and turn a car into an airplane. Same thing applies to turn based and action oriented games.

[Leigh]

additionally, car enthusiasts want better cars in their garage, not airplanes

There is however, no reason at all to try and turn a car into an airplane.

Now hold on just a dang minute!
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Check out how happy you could be!!