Do you own a car?

[Ayen]

No.

[Colonel Angus]

No vehicle. I'm a terrible driver & don't even have a license.

[Pike]

Assuming you're a normal human being, you probably want a break after driving 300 miles in one go

Might be assuming too much there.

Now I'm trying to figure out what the longest I ever drove in one go was. Most I've ever driven in one day was 800 miles but there were a couple of stops for food and stuff.

[Psychotic]

Depends how long you're driving rather than how far. I suspect you could do 300 miles a lot more quickly on North America's sense making roads than on the twisted European ex donkey cart tracks. Plus driving with an automatic is obviously less fatiguing (and less awesome) than driving with a manual.

[Slothy]

Assuming you're a normal human being, you probably want a break after driving 300 miles in one go

Might be assuming too much there.

Now I'm trying to figure out what the longest I ever drove in one go was. Most I've ever driven in one day was 800 miles but there were a couple of stops for food and stuff.

I was mostly thinking that when it comes to driving Sharky isn't a normal human.

Anywho, I never actually answered the threads question. I do have a car, a Chevy Malibu, that replaced my deceased Hyundai Accent. Enough problems have cropped up with it since I bought it though that I'm going to get rid of it. It's due for an inspection this month that I know it won't pass without some work so I'd rather get something new than dump a lot of money into it.

Going out tonight with the intention of financing a new Mitsubishi Mirage. My sister has one and they're a nice little car. Inexpensive to buy and the fuel mileage is exceptional, especially compared to my Malibu. We figured out I'll probably save half the monthly payment in gas alone.

[Loony BoB]

No, but it'd be neat to own one. The financial part is what puts me off. I certainly have no pressing need, I'd just use it for driving around the less urban places of Scotland on a sunny day.

[Mirage]

Assuming you're a normal human being, you probably want a break after driving 300 miles in one go

Might be assuming too much there.

Now I'm trying to figure out what the longest I ever drove in one go was. Most I've ever driven in one day was 800 miles but there were a couple of stops for food and stuff.

Sure, but I was talking about in one sitting, not in one day. With a 30-45 minute food+toilet break, you'd be able to charge back enough to drive that far (assuming we're 5 years into the future).

Maybe I'm just lazy but I probably take up to an hour of breaks even when I drive 300 miles.

[sharkythesharkdogg]

my 1995 audi has better fuel economy than a 2005 ford focus. not that i'm bragging or anything

it has run nearly 300000 km, but the engine is reasonably unproblematic still

I just hope it lasts until i can afford the upcoming tesla model 3. smurf fossile fuels.

Hydrogen fuel cell cars, pls. That would be great.

Please, no. Hydrogen fuel cells are terrible. The main source for pure hydrogen is as a by-product of the fossil fuel manufacturing processes. The other way of purifying hydrogen is electrolysis, which requires 2.5 times as much energy to be put into it than the hydrogen itself holds afterwards. This is not counting the energy required to compress the gas by an immense amount, which is required to get any sort of meaningful amount into a fuel tank. Furthermore, this hydrogen needs to be moved around to fueling stations, which again requires energy, and lastly, hydrogen is an extremely small atom, and seeps through solid metal over time, making storage difficult, as it requires a lot of special materials to keep this at bay. In addition, the way hydrogen interacts with metals make the metals more brittle, so they break more easily.

A fuel cell car by design requires an incredibly complex drive line, as well as tons of movable parts to support the fuel cells. The fuel cells themselves also require lot more maintenance than any part of a regular electric car. Hydrogen is very inefficient to use as a energy bearer, and the gas is extremely explosive (much more so than gasoline), and will in cars be under extremely high pressure. The fewer such cars on the road, the better.

The only advantage hydrogen cells really have is faster refueling, but even that is an advantage i doubt will matter for a lot longer. This is of course assuming you can find a hydrogen station. Building additional superchargers is a much simpler process than keeping a remote station supplied with hydrogen. Meanwhile, battery capacity in electric cars increase by around 5% per year, without getting bigger or heavier. 5 years from now, a new car in the same class that the model S is in today will most likely have a 400 miles actual realistic range, with the ability to charge 300 miles in 30-45 minutes. Assuming you're a normal human being, you probably want a break after driving 300 miles in one go, so at this point, range problems are for most people no longer relevant.

To sum up:
Hydrogen cars are less efficient (35-45% efficiency compared to 80% in a battery electric, and this is before we count the extreme energy loss in hydrogen harvesting)
Hydrogen is either inefficient or dirty to harvest
Performance is lower because the fuel cell has lower peak output
Much higher motor + driveline complexity = more things that can break
Hydrogen stations are rare and more expensive to build than superchargers
Can't be charged at home, which is what 90% of people do 90% of the time because they use their cars to and from work every day

The main reason japan has a hardon for hydrogen cars is that they want people to use the hydrogen as an emergency power source if they lose power from things like earthquakes or tsunamis. For this, hydrogen will last much longer than a fully charged electric car, although this is possible to do with normal electric cars too without too many changes made to them. That, and that it is much easier for japan to import hydrogen than it is to import electricity. Japan actually has quite a bit of electricity supply problem, now that they've decided to shut down many of their nuclear reactors, which was their main source of power until recently.

edit: I can see that not all of the mazda cars in that link seem to be using fuel cells, so I don't know exactly how efficient they are. Regardless, it doesn't change the other disadvantages, and I doubt it's as efficient as 80% like battery electrics are.

I should have elaborated. I'm aware of all of the challenges hydrogen faces, and they probably won't be overcome. I just hope they will. Science is an unstoppable force, so it's always possible.

What I mean by that is the examples you gave regarding how they produce hydrogen with fossil fuels vs. electrolysis because of the energy needed. I hope they find a way to make it much more efficient. I hope technology evolves to make the efficiency better. You get the idea.

While the drive-line of hydrogen cars is more complex than an electric vehicle (in some ways), its not much more complex than current cars. Compared to the dominant car tech we have now, it's pretty similar.

I know EV cars are better in a lot of ways (simplified drive-lines), but the tech has always intrigued me. I always hoped with enough time and research, the barriers you mentioned could be overcome and I could see them produced in a real effective application. It's just a personal interest of mine, even before I knew Mazda was messing with them.

As for long trips, I don't know with a car.

I rode around 1,500 miles in day on my bike at least once. Obviously I stopped to fuel and pee, but it doesn't take long to gas up an 18 liter/5 gallon tank. I'd eat some oatmeal bars while fueling, and then back to the mountain runs.

Going out tonight with the intention of financing a new Mitsubishi Mirage. My sister has one and they're a nice little car. Inexpensive to buy and the fuel mileage is exceptional, especially compared to my Malibu. We figured out I'll probably save half the monthly payment in gas alone.

I like that car. Plus the sales might help poor Mitsubishi. They've been struggling like Mazda.

[Pumpkin]

Should specify that by bike he means motorcycle (I hope) because I got a bit confused there

[Mirage]

What I mean by that is the examples you gave regarding how they produce hydrogen with fossil fuels vs. electrolysis because of the energy needed. I hope they find a way to make it much more efficient. I hope technology evolves to make the efficiency better. You get the idea.

While the drive-line of hydrogen cars is more complex than an electric vehicle (in some ways), its not much more complex than current cars. Compared to the dominant car tech we have now, it's pretty similar.

I think they'd basically need a practically loss-less energy conversion of electricity into hydrogen for it to compete with direct electricity into cars. There is a roughly 10% loss when charging a battery, so for hydrogen conversion to compete with that, it would need to be improved from a 30%-ish efficiency to 95%+, because it would also take energy to move the hydrogen around afterwards. On top of that, the fuel cell efficiency is only at most 45% efficient as well. Both these would have to be improved immensely before it reaches the level of efficiency all electric cars already have today, and it's not like that tech will stand still for the next years either.

A hydrogen car isn't more complex than all electric in some ways, it is more complex in every way. The driveline of a hydrogen car is basically exactly the same as an electric car. It has a cache battery (to make up for the fact that a fuel cell can't generate enough power to give a car even 100 hp, so it needs help during acceleration), then it has electric motors, and a solution for harvesting brake energy back into the battery. So far, it has the same complexity as an all electric.

However, now you also add a hydrogen tank, a fuel cell, and a unit to safely decompress hydrogen from 200 bars to an usable pressure, which consumes a lot of heat, effectively freezing the components, which makes them weaker unless you immediately supply more heat to make up for it. Then the fuel cell also gets clogged up with junk over time, which lowers its efficiency and requires you to service the car more often.

It can never be less complex than an EV because it is basically an EV with 50 extra things attached. Many people go for electric vehicles despite their higher cost because they expect this extra cost to be made back through fewer fuel and service expenses. Hydrogen is never going to get as cheap to tank up with as electricity from your house will be, and I definitely imagine a hydrogen car requiring a lot more servicing than an EV.

[starlet]

I have a '14 ford focus and I kind of hate it. I mean, it's not the worst car but it feels like it has a transmission/engine issue, but I read that that's common for that car. And it's a lease so I don't actually own it. Hopefully I can move somewhere by the time the lease is up where I don't need a car anymore.

[Mirage]

make one guess at what sort of car we are getting if you come here, starlet

[starlet]

make one guess at what sort of car we are getting if you come here, starlet

Idk, a tesla maybe? :P

[Pike]

I rode around 1,500 miles in day on my bike at least once.

At first I thought you were talking about a regular bike and I was really confused

[Mirage]

sharky is secretly a world class cyclist

i understand his need for secrecy. his miata club might excommunicate him if they found out