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Thread: Fynn's Final Fantasy Fmarathon

  1. #391
    Radical Dreamer Fynn's Avatar
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    GOT to disc two. Yeah, the thing happened.

    Other than that, I'm starting to get the feeling FFVII is way too long for it's own good. I mean, there's two more discs of story, but I literally can't remember anything that happens from this point (aside from Cloud's mind breaking and the WEAPON stuff), but that kinda makes me feel all this is padding? I mean, I forgot how horribly in-fun the snowboarding mini game was, and that took forever! Now I'm at the Great Glacier which is just a mess to get through.

    I just... kinda wish this game would just get to the point? Not to mention that the mood whiplash of Cait Sith coming back cheerfully while Cloud literally beats Aerith senseless, or when right after her death it's all like "woohoo snowboarding!" :/ I like me some good whiplash, but this just feels like it's in very poor taste

  2. #392
    Formerly NewBlackMage Fate Fatale's Avatar
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    I'm actually really excited for the remake because of that! I feel like they will be able to consolidate some of the storyline and re-pace the game to match the updated battle system. Plus since they're doing full V/o for Cloud, we'll actually get some of that perspective rather than the silent protagonist.

    Best of luck on the rest of a marathon, btw! Love living vicariously through your journey!

    "Everything has a purpose. It's your life's mission to find yours."

  3. #393

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    The glacier is probably my least favourite part of VII except maybe Temple of the Ancients... cause I never figured out how to navigate the damn place. No matter where I landed I always ended up going in the wrong direction somehow and it would take forever.

  4. #394
    'Just Friends' Formalhaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fynn View Post
    GOT to disc two. Yeah, the thing happened.

    Other than that, I'm starting to get the feeling FFVII is way too long for it's own good. I mean, there's two more discs of story, but I literally can't remember anything that happens from this point (aside from Cloud's mind breaking and the WEAPON stuff), but that kinda makes me feel all this is padding? I mean, I forgot how horribly in-fun the snowboarding mini game was, and that took forever! Now I'm at the Great Glacier which is just a mess to get through.

    I just... kinda wish this game would just get to the point? Not to mention that the mood whiplash of Cait Sith coming back cheerfully while Cloud literally beats Aerith senseless, or when right after her death it's all like "woohoo snowboarding!" :/ I like me some good whiplash, but this just feels like it's in very poor taste
    You aren't wrong; FFVII's main flaw is that the story really loses coherence after Disc One. The snowboarding section is terrible. The Great Glacier is a slog. Honestly, they could have chosen a better location for Disc Two. The mood whiplash jarring as well; the game has pacing issues, and they definitely need correcting.


  5. #395
    Radical Dreamer Fynn's Avatar
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    Yep. The Huge Material quest is just another trainwreck, honestly. It really doesn't make sense why they'd go outbofvtheirvwat to spite Shinra - Cid even mentions this on the ticket, how we should maybe trust science?

    Really, the only redeeming thing about the whole disc is the whole reconstruction of Cloud thing

  6. #396
    Trial by Wombat Bubba's Avatar
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    Honestly, end of disc one is about halfway.

    When you get to disc 3 it's literally a bit of Midgar and the final dungeon.

  7. #397
    Radical Dreamer Fynn's Avatar
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    I know. It's just that back when I first played it, I never noticed how weak and unnecessary the majority of disc 2 was. I really don't think there was a need to pad it out so much. Funny how I never noticed that before. But then again, I was a kid when I last beat it

  8. #398
    Radical Dreamer Fynn's Avatar
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    Okay, I know I may have come off as a bit negative in recent posts. But make no mistake - I still love FFVII and it's still one of my favorite games. It's just that I last played it a long time ago, and so that, combined with the reverence it gets treated with, makes the issues I didn't see back then, all the more glaring.

    So I haven't done this since FFIV, I think, but here's a list of pros and cons I've noticed so far, as well as a list of just general things I hadn't noticed before. I am now almost at the end, so I don't think it would change much if I waited.

    + The atmosphere is great, especially at the beginning sections.
    + In general, disc 1 is very solid and has this cohesive narrative that, while it has its ups and downs (Cosmo Canyon was boring and the focus does seem a bit lost right after you leave Midgar), makes you wanna keep going until the very end of the disc.
    + I actually really enjoy limit breaks.
    + Though in general I vastly prefer Espers and Junction to Materia, I still think the idea of having to choose a weapon not only based on stats, but also all the benefits or shortcomings it has when it comes to materia, is pretty cool.
    + I like most of the characters, Barret and Tifa especially, which is why I'm basically only sticking to them throughout.
    + Probably the prettiest world map in the series, despite the overall dreadful presentation. It's also filled with secrets and fun stuff off the beaten path, which is great.
    + The soundtrack is one of the absolute best in the series.

    - Yuffie is the single worst character in the history of the franchise. I really don't get why people love her. Her design is stupid, she's a pain to get, the Wutai theft chapter is one of the most tedious parts of the game, and every word she speaks is garbage. She is out of place, she is not fun to be around, and in general she is complete and utter trash. I hate her guts and I want to see her burn in hell.
    - In general, disc 2 is just... wrong. I heard some people complain about it, but I never remembered it being as bad as it is. Oh, but it is. Save for a few meaningful scenes like reconstructing Cloud and the part right after the northern crater (and possibly the Midgar revisit, but I still haven't gotten there, so I can't really say), it just feels like insane padding. I honestly feel like this game was made too long for its own good. The Great Glacier and the whole crater area was way too long and lacking in cutscenes for its own good, not to mention the only thing separating it from Aerith's death was a snowboard ride, which is just... ugh. It seems like for the hours following her death people forget to even mention her.
    - Probably the worst part of Disc 2, though, is the huge materia arc. It really makes no sense for the team to go after Shinra. I get that they're trying to preserve the planet, yadda yadda, but when you guys have no clue how to save the world, maybe you should just let Shinra blow up the Meteor with the huge materia because that sounds like a solid plan and if the world is gone there is nothing left on it to protect anyway?! I mean, even smurfing Cid says it when they're on the rocket, but no, later on he's like "eh, I guess I went to space already, so I don't really care about any of that anymore." And then they're devastated when the rocket didn't destroy the meteor. DON'T YOU THINK MAYBE THE OUTCOME COULD BE A BIT DIFFERENT IF YOU HADN'T DECIDED TO JEOPARDIZE THE WHOLE THING?
    - The translation is downright incomprehensible at certain points. Gast's secret laboratory was really bad, and then there was that scene on the Highwind where Red XIII says they should go visit Bugenhagen - the whole dialogue was so incomprehensible I literally had no clue how they all got to that conclusion. One thing I'm really looking forward in the remake is that they'll finally make the words sound good. Also, I am pretty convinced Gelnika was supposed to be called Guernica. Yeah, like Picasso's painting. Because that's actually a word that has some intertextual meaning, and Gelnika looks like some translator sat down, saw the katakana and just transcribed it into a vaguely Russian-looking word. Because Russians have submarines, amirite?
    - I see a lot of people complaining about the Empire in FFXV, but damn, man, have you seen the Shinra people? Palmer, Scarlet and Heidegger are just so useless it's just funny. And that slapping match on the cannon was just terrible.


    And some weird things I noticed:

    *I've come to the conclusion that Aerith's death in the narrative serves a completely different purpose than I (and creators of the Compilation, apparently) have assumed previously. The loss of Aerith as a character isn't what really influences the narrative and the motivation of the main cast - it's what it entails for Cloud. Or rather, not what the death itself entails, but Cloud's actions prior to it. Nobody really mourns her death - the first time anyone mentions her after she dies is when the party meet up with Bugenhagen to take him to the Forgotten City, and that's way past the half-way point of disc 2. And even then, it's just a throwaway line.

    Honestly, once the initial shock of "they killed a potential love interest!" wears off, there's not really much left. Her death - and the fact that it was Cloud that almost killed her - is meant as more of a segway that leads us into the part of the story that focues on Cloud's fractured psyche. Right after the death, and just before the "change discs" screen shows up, Cloud's last line is something along the lines of "This is who I am. If I ever lose control of myself again, please, stop me."

    The way it's framed, this is not a story about loss. Aerith's death isn't supposed to be impactful for the very fact that you've lost a precious party member (it was framed that way in V and worked very effectively) - it's actually a tool that clues you in on the fact that Cloud isn't exactly who he is. And that's scary.

    So though we've built up our own discourse about Aerith and her death over the years, her death is actually framed more like a plot device in the game. It's not important that a character dies. It's important what this death means for everyone else and the fate of the world. Even the grief isn't there. Which is kind of sad.

  9. #399
    Radical Dreamer Fynn's Avatar
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    Do you guys know which game I think has so far had the most narrative consistency and the best pacing, as I'm playing this marathon? IV. I'm surprised myself, since while I always liked it a lot, it was never one of my favorites. But it really has a story that keeps you invested from start to finish and my most recent experience with the DS version had me perfectly leveled for every area, meaning my pace was never slowed by extra grinding. This is something I don't think has been done before in the series or since. FFs I through III didn't have really compelling narratives, while V, VI and VII all kind of lose focus after the mid-point (which bothers me more in VII, and less in V and VI due to why it happens in all those games). Because of that, IV feels much shorter than the games that came after it (even though it's not THAT much shorter), but in a good way - a game that has a very clear beginning, middle and end and a steady pace throughout.

    Is IV my favorite FF from the ones I've played? Absolutely not. But I never noticed how perfect an example it is of a story that has just enough things to keep you interested from start to finish while not bogging your progress down with way too much stuff to do or nearless padding. So while it may not be my favorite, I'd say it's definitely the most satisfying one so far.

    Yeah, that said, I only played through VIII and IX once, so we'll see what impression they make on me in that regard.

  10. #400
    Trial by Wombat Bubba's Avatar
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    It's funny seeing people's opinions on Wutai. It seems pretty much split between people really enjoying it and really hating it. I thought it was a very enjoyable and I loved the sole pagoda challenge for Yuffie. I suppose if you hate her though it would be a nightmare

  11. #401
    Radical Dreamer Fynn's Avatar
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    Indeed

    That's why I'm not touching that quest with a ten-foot pole

  12. #402
    Witch of Theatergoing Karifean's Avatar
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    I believe Sakaguchi once stated that the point with Aerith's (and also Zack's) death was that the world doesn't stop turning just because someone died. Yeah it sucks, yeah it's sad, but the world at large doesn't care; life goes on and in the characters' case they still have an explicit goal to reach. They all find ways to grieve in their own way, without making it a huge let's-all-wallow-in-self-pity session or anything like that.

    It's why no matter how cool Zack's death was in Crisis Core, it'll always feel to me like it kinda missed the point of them originally making it a completely anticlimactic ambush by I believe it was 3 Shinra soldiers. Instead of, you know, a gigantic smurfing army.

    DON'T YOU THINK MAYBE THE OUTCOME COULD BE A BIT DIFFERENT IF YOU HADN'T DECIDED TO JEOPARDIZE THE WHOLE THING?
    *shrug* It's your own choice to decide whether they remove the materia from the rocket or not, and yet you're blaming it on the characters? Don't abuse your status as a world-crossing witch, man =P Though I will say I never had the feeling they were devastated, they were basically expecting it to fail but seeing it directly still bums them out, understandably enough.

    Also, now you know why Yuffie was an optional character ^^

  13. #403
    Radical Dreamer Fynn's Avatar
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    No, I get the death thing, and I understand why it's important that it's understated. That;s not the point I'm making. I'm not saying this is a blunder on the part of the writers, it's just that the death itself isn't really important to the narrative in the way a large chunk of the fandom (including me, up until this point) misunderstood it. Aerith's death isn't a turning point because of her death - it's not her death that makes the characters change their motivations and reach an epiphany. It's something that propels some story events forward, and only then do the characters really grow and change. It's more like a stepping stone - and a much lesser one than Cloud completely giving in and giving Sephiroth the black Materia, which I think is where the real Wham Episode happens - to the actual resolution of the story and character arcs.

    But then that epiphany goes out the windows and here we go with the senseless huge materia padding

    Also, Cloud & co., you assholes! Criticizing Shinra for using materia to save the world when you're doing the exact same thing!

  14. #404

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    Yeah the huge materia stuff really is a big plot hole. I mean at least Shinra are actually using it. You steal it from them and... what? It just sits in Bugenhagen's observatory. You can't even get anything out of them until you've done a crazy amount of work. You can't get Master Summon until you have all the summons but if you have Knights of the Round then you sure as hell don't need Master Summon to beat Sephiroth.

  15. #405

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    Yeah, have always hated the Big Materia plot, even when I was about 11 years old I was like " uhm, wtf game " ??? And then the game shows clips of sad, heartbroken and disappointed people, because there's no materia in the rocket anymore and it fails to even scratch the meteor. Depressed and hopeless people, because of Cloud and the group. Not Shrina. It's almost like Barret and Cloud didn't want to give Shrina any credit for anything ? So they risked everybody dying so Avalanche could be the heroes instead ? Wtf ?


    Too bad you hate Yuffie though, Fynn, always thought that was a interesting character, as she's a teen that just doesn't know how to deal with her town basically turning into a tourist attraction after a big war, and somehow believes that materia will solve all her problems and is addicted to materia, almost like it's a drug to her. She wants materia, so bad, that she's willing to trick and lie to friends ( like real life drug and gambling addicts, though FF VII does it in a over-the-top Loony Tunes cartoon tone ) Always found her coping methods interesting. If you take her to Aerith's death, she just clings to Cloud and shakes her head in despair- Yuffie is just a confused and lost teenager, that doesn't understand how to cope with the heavy parts of life yet imo.

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