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Thread: Fallout 3 vs. New Vegas

  1. #46
    Twirler of moustaches CactuarKing's Avatar
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    Which is probably why Fallout 4 is so shallow as it was the Fallout 3 engine and slightly improved graphics.

  2. #47
    Slothstronaut Recognized Member Slothy's Avatar
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    Well, no, it was a totally different engine from Fallout 3, but the engine is just a tool for making a game. None of the differences in gameplay from Fallout 3 to Fallout 4 have anything to do with the engine really and could have been done easily if they chose to do it.

    But the last comments Mirage and I made were specifically about Fallout 3 being shallow, not Fallout 4. I would actually say Fallout 4 is no worse in that regard, it just does a worse job hiding it in places.

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    absolutely haram Recognized Member Madame Adequate's Avatar
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    FO4 is pretty much just as shallow as 3, but I felt personally it did a much better job of hiding it, because there was nothing as egregiously stupid like, oh, say, the Main Quest in 3. Like yeah the MQ in 4 wasn't great but it wasn't warmed-over garbage either.

    But I mean we're comparing both to NV which was one of the best RPGs of any style in years, warts and all, so it's kind of moot.

  4. #49
    tech spirit
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    FO4 doesn't have an entirely different engine. It's the same codebase as gamebryo, just with some extra stuff to make the graphics up to par with other games. It's the same engine as was used for Skyrim too, naturally.
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  5. #50
    Slothstronaut Recognized Member Slothy's Avatar
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    When I said 4 doesn't hide it as well i specifically meant that the lack of dialogue choices makes it even more apparent that there's little impact you can actually have through dialogue. 3 was just as bad of course, it's just a lot more apparent since it's not hidden under a list of possible, if useless, choices.

    It's a shame Bethesda didn't learn anything from New Vegas though. There was a game where your choices mattered.

  6. #51
    *permanent smite* Spuuky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Adequate View Post
    Like yeah the MQ in 4 wasn't great but it wasn't warmed-over garbage either.
    I see you didn't do a Railroad playthrough.

  7. #52
    she'll steal your heart Hollycat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spuuky View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Adequate View Post
    Like yeah the MQ in 4 wasn't great but it wasn't warmed-over garbage either.
    I see you didn't do a Railroad playthrough.
    Ugh that ending -_-
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  8. #53
    absolutely haram Recognized Member Madame Adequate's Avatar
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    Well yeah why would I do a Railroad play through when the Institute and BoS exist? There are two sides worth siding with and neither begin with "R" or "M".

    e; The endings are trout but that's not limited to the faction, it's the fact that Bethesda couldn't figure out how to combine letting you play after you finish the MQ with giving actual closure or outcomes to anything.

  9. #54
    *permanent smite* Spuuky's Avatar
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    The main quest is actually pretty much garbage. The Institute as a faction makes no sense at all. The Railroad makes even less sense. The BoS does at least make sense but they're an unpleasant bunch of assholes who I'd never want to win. And the Minutemen are just a failover faction in case you somehow screw up everything else.

    Do you know what I had to do for (SPOILER)the battle of Bunker Hill, for instance? I executed the Synth Courser when we first arrived, since I am Railroading. Every faction was non-hostile to me at this point - even if I attacked them. I killed every single BoS and Institute rep with my combat knife, without making anyone hostile. Paladins took 3-4 backstabs, never caring at all, until they were dead.

    I made it inside - the Railroad is non-hostile of course, but their machine gun turrets are still hostile to me so I HAVE to kill my own side's turrets, to walk by. I got inside, and learned that my entire objective was literally just walk all the way in to quest-tag the synths (aka do literally nothing but walk into the room) and walk all the way back out, again with no one firing at me.

    This is mandatory main-quest event. I could actually probably keep listening utter nonsense interactions and plot holes from even just this one, but I think you get the picture.

  10. #55
    Happiness Hurricane!! Pike's Avatar
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    I say we just put Obsidian in charge of all future Fallout and TES games.

    And there's a part of me that is like "Oh but Bethesda did Morrowind, I still believe" but I'm pretty sure we aren't gonna get another Morrowind. (Although, thinking about it, if I was gonna trust anybody to do a new Morrowind I'd trust Obsidian.)

  11. #56

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    Eh, I really can't say I've enjoyed Obsidian games that much more than Bethesda games. And I haven't beaten any Obsidian games any more than I've beaten Bethesda games, so I can't really say much about how they handle their end-game. Other than Knights of the Old Republic 2, which was pretty phenomenal. Alpha Protocol was alright, New Vegas was alright, South Park was pretty good, Pillars of Eternity was pretty good. Fallout 3 was alright. Oblivion was pretty good. And Fallout 4 was pretty good

    They rank about the same in my capacity to enjoy them and how much drive they give me to play through everything they have to offer in a game. I'm not sure why Obsidian is seen as so much of a better developer on these forums over Bethesda, or BioWare in a lot of cases. I see them as pretty equal overall. Though I do think Obsidian should have the rights to Fallout back. Or inXile. They both have pretty much the same pedigree of original involvement back in the Black Isle days. But I think inXile will get along fine with the renewed Wasteland IP. Which it too was pretty good, is all I'll count it as. Torment looks to be really good. But we'll see

    Maybe I'm just overlooking some valuable nuance. Or I'm just really picky when rating my favorite games and their developers



  12. #57
    Happiness Hurricane!! Pike's Avatar
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    For me, and I know it's different for other people, but I always preferred Obsidian games over Bethesda ones. That's not to say that they're my favorite dev ever or anything. But aside from Morrowind (which I loved) and Skyrim (which I liked a great deal, although it did have some issues), pretty much anything by Bethesda has just felt meh to me.

    I hate to say it because they're really good at making worlds that feel alive. And of course I will always love Morrowind. But I feel like beyond that they're just kind of... there?

    Meanwhile Obsidian gave us New Vegas, KoTOR 2, PoE, and Alpha Protocol, all of which I liked (to varying degrees).

    That's my take on it, anyway. Obs not everyone feels the same

    As for BioWare. I liked their older stuff (KoTOR, Baldur's Gate II) quite a bit but I haven't really been able to get into any of their new stuff. I don't know if they're really the dev for me. In fairness it's been a little while since I've given them a shot, I guess.

  13. #58
    *permanent smite* Spuuky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vyk View Post
    Alpha Protocol was alright, New Vegas was alright, South Park was pretty good, Pillars of Eternity was pretty good. Fallout 3 was alright. Oblivion was pretty good. And Fallout 4 was pretty good
    I'll use some of your game list to summarize why I think Obsidian is better than Bethesda.

    Oblivion - 4/10
    Fallout 3 - 5/10
    New Vegas - 8/10
    South Park - 8/10
    Fallout 4 - 6/10

    Although I think Bioware is better than Obsidian.

  14. #59
    absolutely haram Recognized Member Madame Adequate's Avatar
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    Bethesda have gone downhill in the last decade. Morrowind was by far their pinnacle, and although they've redeemed themselves quite a bit in my eyes after the debacles of Oblivion and Fallout 3, with their respective sequels, I still don't rate them as all that amazing. Still, if they're back on the up from their nadir maybe the next things they come out with will be really amazing again.

    On the other hand the only thing Obsidian has ever done wrong is lacked enough time to do everything they want. That's why, for example, Caesar's Legion isn't at all fleshed out. They intended to have a lot more going on behind their front lines where you would see a much more complex society and which might create a justification for a not-evil Courier to side with them, but they just didn't have the resources. For another example, KOTOR 2 was infamous for cut content and a sense of not being entirely finished when it shipped.

    But even when that happens the games they make are far more interesting than anything from Bethesda since Morrowind. Alpha Protocol is flawed, but amazing and both meaningfully novel and deep. South Park was a great and hilarious little RPG. New Vegas was way better than "alright". And Pillars of Eternity was pretty much instantly declared a classic of the CRPG genre, not quite the equal of Baldur's Gate II or Planescape: Torment, but really damn close.

    As for BioWare, I don't rate modern BW as highly as some do, but aside from massively smurfing up with ME3, they've put out consistently huge and detailed games that win a lot of acclaim and a lot of fans. They may not be making another game as absolutely, incomparably masterful as Baldur's Gate 2 anytime soon, but it's not like I didn't play all the Mass Effect series at release, and I've been spending most of my gaming time the last week intensely playing DA:O so I mean, they're doing a lot right. But they're not doing much that's daring, not how Obsidian attempt and often succeed.

    Except telling everyone to get smurfed when everyone was mad about the ending of Mass Effect 3, that was a pretty hilarious bit of daring trolling, I'll admit.

  15. #60
    Ray "Bloody" Purchase! Crop's Avatar
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    Fallout 3 and Skyrim were two of my favourite games from the last generation. Probably in my top 10 somewhere.

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