Best Combat System in an RPG

[Fox]

I gave this a little more thought and I think what I liked most about Child of Light's battle system was that all characters, enemies and bosses are susceptible to all status effects. I don't think I've seen a more honest battle system anywhere.

Smurfing finally!!!

This should be RPG Design 101 but so few games do it. In fact I literally cannot name one that does (except Child of Light, now). I imagine CRPGs like Divinity: Original Sin do it properly but I've not played recently enough to be sure.

Even in the games I love the most, I absolutely despise how in boss battles - and often times even just regular mobs in high level areas - half your arsenal of magic becomes meaningless. What's the point in giving me Transform, Manipulate and Poison materia if they won't work in any of the battles where I might actually need to use more complex tactics!! It's no good having them only for regular enemies, they're no threat anyway so why would I need to be creative?

[Spuuky]

Divinity:OS has some status effects work against some bosses as is appropriate. Etrian Odyssey often has bosses weak to them, as another example.

Here are the reasons you don't normally see that:

a) Status effects aren't used by most players anyway
b) Status effects tend to be grossly overpowered when they work and would trivialize boss encounters

[Fox]

Here are the reasons you don't normally see that:

a) Status effects aren't used by most players anyway
b) Status effects tend to be grossly overpowered when they work and would trivialize boss encounters

It must be far more b) than a). If player's just weren't using them anyway you wouldn't go to the trouble of making bosses resistant to them, or heck maybe you'd just be better served removing pointless abilities from the game entirely. No, it's mainly the problem of being overpowered as you say with b).

But to me that's just a balancing issue that some sensible design and testing should iron out. Is an ability overpowered? Nerf it! But you should almost never render it completely unusable.

[Spuuky]

Many "status effect" type things can't be nerfed. Let's take some common examples:

Stone - ends the fight, can't work
Death/OHKO - ends the fight, can't work
Sleep - typically trivializes fights it works in
Defense down - often works on bosses
Blind - has to either be really bad (so why use it) or trivializes most fights
Poison - Just a damage spell really
Confusion - Nope
Stun - typically trivializes fights it works in

I mean you can't make most statuses do anything because most of them result in a boss not doing anything, or dying outright. And it isn't fun to have a spell just have a low success rate for a marginal effect (like sleep for 1 turn at 10% success) - you'll just never, ever use it.

[Skyblade]

Many "status effect" type things can't be nerfed. Let's take some common examples:

Stone - ends the fight, can't work
Death/OHKO - ends the fight, can't work
Sleep - typically trivializes fights it works in
Defense down - often works on bosses
Blind - has to either be really bad (so why use it) or trivializes most fights
Poison - Just a damage spell really
Confusion - Nope
Stun - typically trivializes fights it works in

I mean you can't make most statuses do anything because most of them result in a boss not doing anything, or dying outright. And it isn't fun to have a spell just have a low success rate for a marginal effect (like sleep for 1 turn at 10% success) - you'll just never, ever use it.

Another one for that list:

Silence - Trivializes most fights

In a similar vein for most useless useful magic:

Demi - Cast this twice, and three quarters of a boss fight is skipped? Yeah, that's not broken.



It's really obvious why most of these don't work on bosses. Unfortunately, it does make most of them useless, because, as pointed out by TV Tropes, with enemies it does work on, there are easier and more efficient ways to dispatch them.

[Del Murder]

I like it when the status effects can be used on bosses in unconventional ways to give an advantage but not trivialize the fight. For example, if a boss does not cast any magic other than a massive cure spell, Silence would make the fight easier but not trivial. Or perhaps it keeps respawning minions which may be better to put to sleep instead of constantly killing. Or maybe Blind works for a few seconds and you can use it to avoid it's most dangerous physical attack with proper timing. I always felt the status effects in FFXI were pretty useful on certain bosses in this way.

[Fynn]

I think it was FFIV that allowed you to Slow down most bosses, which was the only way to survive in the DS version, really.

[Pete for President]

Many "status effect" type things can't be nerfed. Let's take some common examples:

Stone - ends the fight, can't work
Death/OHKO - ends the fight, can't work
Sleep - typically trivializes fights it works in
Defense down - often works on bosses
Blind - has to either be really bad (so why use it) or trivializes most fights
Poison - Just a damage spell really
Confusion - Nope
Stun - typically trivializes fights it works in

I mean you can't make most statuses do anything because most of them result in a boss not doing anything, or dying outright. And it isn't fun to have a spell just have a low success rate for a marginal effect (like sleep for 1 turn at 10% success) - you'll just never, ever use it.

Another one for that list:

Silence - Trivializes most fights

In a similar vein for most useless useful magic:

Demi - Cast this twice, and three quarters of a boss fight is skipped? Yeah, that's not broken.



It's really obvious why most of these don't work on bosses. Unfortunately, it does make most of them useless, because, as pointed out by TV Tropes, with enemies it does work on, there are easier and more efficient ways to dispatch them.

But with these examples maybe it's better to question why they are in the game in the first place. If a status effect could break boss fights it is just a bad implementation, or should not be in the game at all.

[Fox]

Many "status effect" type things can't be nerfed. Let's take some common examples:

Stone - ends the fight, can't work
Death/OHKO - ends the fight, can't work
Sleep - typically trivializes fights it works in
Defense down - often works on bosses
Blind - has to either be really bad (so why use it) or trivializes most fights
Poison - Just a damage spell really
Confusion - Nope
Stun - typically trivializes fights it works in

You can nerf all of those in two ways:

1) Adjust the effects - just because Stone ends the battle in game X doesn't mean it has to in every game. If a status effect is just gonna instantly end a fight it doesn't sound like a very interesting effect to begin with. Also if an effect is too powerful you can add a downside.
2) Adjust the cost. The easier an effect makes a fight (e.g. 'Sleep', the higher it should cost).

A good nerf will balance both of these elements. So, for a few examples assuming a turn based system like FFX where 1 'turn' is a single character's action on the CTB:

Stone - Enemy is encased in stone and immobilized for 3 turns. Enemy's physical defense increases while afflicted.
Sleep - Enemy falls asleep for between 3-5 turns and is woken if attacked. HP recovers 10% per turn while sleeping.
Blind - Enemy's physical accuracy drops significantly, but gradually recovers over a number of turns. Enemy magical power increases.
Silence - Enemy's chance of successful casting a spell drops significantly, but gradually recovers over a number of turns. Enemy physical power increases.
Poison - Pretty self explanatory. Just a damage spell. I would have it be quite low damage, but long lasting and ignores things like armour.
Confusion - Enemy will deal damage to random battle participant including itself. All damage is amplified.
Stun - Enemy attack delayed by one turn. Stun is only a % side-effect of other abilities, not something cast in its own right.

Now I think of it, FFX was pretty decent when it came to allowing effects on bosses. Stuff like blind was used well in Wakka's abilities, where you could have 'Dark Attack' which had a low % chance to blind the enemy for 3 turns, or 'Dark Buster' which had a high % chance to blind the enemy for 1 turn. Although blind itself was a very powerful status effect, the short duration (coupled with the lower % but not TOO low chance of success on the more useful ability) was a decent nerf.

[Slothy]

Yeah, I'm pretty firmly of the opinion that if something as simple as status effects break a game of they're used on bosses and they simply make harder enemies immune to everything then the game designers have failed to do their job either due to laziness or simple lack of imagination. Neither is desirable.

[Depression Moon]

Pokemon is the perfect example of great status effect usage. I would have never beat Blaze Black 2 without Attract.

[rhophiehalul78]

Probably not the best but I enjoyed the battle system in Chrono Cross. It also helps that me and my friends have different experiences on who was the hardest boss. I was having a very tough time fighting Garai while my friend's hardest boss fight is Miguel.

[Fynn]

I've recently come to really appreciate the beautiful simplicity of DQ's classic turn-based system

[Formalhaut]

Many "status effect" type things can't be nerfed. Let's take some common examples:

Stone - ends the fight, can't work
Death/OHKO - ends the fight, can't work
Sleep - typically trivializes fights it works in
Defense down - often works on bosses
Blind - has to either be really bad (so why use it) or trivializes most fights
Poison - Just a damage spell really
Confusion - Nope
Stun - typically trivializes fights it works in

You can nerf all of those in two ways:

1) Adjust the effects - just because Stone ends the battle in game X doesn't mean it has to in every game. If a status effect is just gonna instantly end a fight it doesn't sound like a very interesting effect to begin with. Also if an effect is too powerful you can add a downside.
2) Adjust the cost. The easier an effect makes a fight (e.g. 'Sleep', the higher it should cost).

A good nerf will balance both of these elements. So, for a few examples assuming a turn based system like FFX where 1 'turn' is a single character's action on the CTB:

Stone - Enemy is encased in stone and immobilized for 3 turns. Enemy's physical defense increases while afflicted.
Sleep - Enemy falls asleep for between 3-5 turns and is woken if attacked. HP recovers 10% per turn while sleeping.
Blind - Enemy's physical accuracy drops significantly, but gradually recovers over a number of turns. Enemy magical power increases.
Silence - Enemy's chance of successful casting a spell drops significantly, but gradually recovers over a number of turns. Enemy physical power increases.
Poison - Pretty self explanatory. Just a damage spell. I would have it be quite low damage, but long lasting and ignores things like armour.
Confusion - Enemy will deal damage to random battle participant including itself. All damage is amplified.
Stun - Enemy attack delayed by one turn. Stun is only a % side-effect of other abilities, not something cast in its own right.

Now I think of it, FFX was pretty decent when it came to allowing effects on bosses. Stuff like blind was used well in Wakka's abilities, where you could have 'Dark Attack' which had a low % chance to blind the enemy for 3 turns, or 'Dark Buster' which had a high % chance to blind the enemy for 1 turn. Although blind itself was a very powerful status effect, the short duration (coupled with the lower % but not TOO low chance of success on the more useful ability) was a decent nerf.

This sounds like a pretty reasonable balancing, there. 10% heal over time with sleep sounds high, for me. Maybe a slightly lower percentage (I'm thinking just how much health bosses have), but other than that, it seems good. FFX had one of the better ailment systems. FFXII was decent as well. Sap was cool, if someone useless on enemies. But Disease was good to prevent enemies who powered up after breaching a health threshold from powering up.

For me, the best combat system balances magic and physical attacks. Too many times have either physical or magic attacks triumphed over the other (looking at FFXII, here. Yes, you know what you did!). In that game, partly due to technical necessity, high end magic was all but useless sans the healing spells, and even then items did a better job of that in tight situations.

[Night Fury]

Line 5 - Find me among needles

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