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Thread: Why all the BM/BW hate?

  1. #1
    Vasher's Avatar
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    Default Why all the BM/BW hate?

    For me, the Black Mage/Wizard has always played a critical role on the team.

    Grinding: he makes this so much easier and each battle goes quicker. Take the "Peninsula of Power" (which I always thought was a little known secret, probably because I haven't read anything on this game since looking at the back of the box in 1990). There you can wipe out the Frost Wolves ( now "Winter Wolf") with ease, up to 9 of them with a spell. 4 Zombulls, Diara and Fira. Large hordes don't take forever to plug away at. Giants (Hill Gigas), after Blizaga their just a sword swing away from death. That's early on, later, the BM/BW wipes them out without even using MP (via use of Guantlets, Mages Staff, or Black Cloak).

    Dungeon Delving: same applies here. Takes away the tedium of slowly plugin away at hordes. Their great for stat buffs, and I don't know who said they aren't "Boss Smashers", but with their spells they easily score close to what a Fighter/Knight does, sometimes more.

    Vs Red Mage: IMHO, the Red Mage is "useless". If you aren't the best at any specific role, what's the point? Not as good as a Fighter. Can't use the best weapons and armor (minus the universal Masmune), doesn't do as much damage with the same weapon, so why not just have a Fighter/Knight? The fact that he is unable to make use of the best spells means that he can't fill the roles that the White and Black mages do. Jack of All Trades, yes, but Master of none. Nuke (now Flare) makes the Black Wizard as effective in battle as a Knight (generally), sometimes more so. Also, once you get your hands on the Guantlets, Mages Staff, and Black Cloak, the BM/BW can wipe out hordes without wasting MP (saving Nuke, I mean Flar, for the biggun's). Nobody else can use these items as effectively, similar to the WM/WW use of the Light Axe, or Healing Staff/Helm. There is no replacement for the Black Mage/Wizard. Also, if the Red Mage is "sooooo intriguing", then why didn't he reprise his role in IX. (Not even a question) *Drops Mic*.



    My usual party has always been Fighterx2, WM, +BM. If not, I'd go with Fighter, Thief (for his evasion and to utilize the really cool Katana that is Ninja exclusive), WM, BM. I just played through again (iOS) with the former. The Fighters/Knights were named after my sons, WM (my daughter), and the BM was named "Beans" (Black Beans, a "staple" for my wife's country).

  2. #2
    (charm)anders was right Pike's Avatar
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    Althalor Lightpike (Excalibur)
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    Wait, people don't like Black Mage? I always have one in my FFI party.

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    Killer of Conversations Galuf's Avatar
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    Galuf Luna (Sargatanas)

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    I'm with Mettaton over here, who doesnt use a BM?
    Lady Jen and Me <3

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    Radical Dreamer Cid's Knight Fynn's Avatar
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    Yeah, the only character I've ever seen hated in the original FF was the blackbelt.

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    'Just Friends' Formalhaut's Avatar
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    I've seen the thief get some hate, before.


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    Taking care of business Cid's Knight Bubba's Avatar
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    Black Mage is my favourite character from FF1. I love the fact that he looks like Orco from He-Man.

  7. #7
    Ghost of Christmas' past theundeadhero's Avatar
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    Lagooshka Luvtruck (Sargatanas)
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    At early levels you can only cast a spell class three or four times before he has to rest at an inn, so you have no choice but to use his very weak physical attack. On top of that, Fire and Lit spells are in the same class. You won't even make it past the first floor of a dungeon before getting in three random encounters. It's better to have a stronger class that can 1-shot one of whatever you're fighting. At later levels it's better to have the WW use the spell items like Thor's Hammer and the Mage Staff since there's plenty of downtime between healing, again freeing up the slot for a class that can 1-shot what you're fighting. There's no point in the game where you have an advantage by using a BW, since bosses have a very high natural resistance to magic like Nuke. I would even take a TH over a BM, with their only advantage being able to run better, and the only thing in this game worth running from is a group of Sorcerers.

    Bork Bork

  8. #8
    (charm)anders was right Pike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Formalhaut View Post
    I've seen the thief get some hate, before.
    This is actually a good point, does anyone really use Thief?

    My usual party: BLM, WHM, Fighter and Red Mage (yeah I know RM isn't top tier but I love the outfit, it's so classy)

  9. #9

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    I use the thief sometimes, but just as a BB replacement for flavor, really. They aren't as good, but once they promote they do the job well enough.

    Black Mages are usually part of my party, but I do think they are on the weak side in the original game, as you are pretty heavily MP gated and Red Mages offer comparable potency with the benefits of white magic and a salvageable physical attack. I find they make grinding pedes and trolls a lot easier around Crescent, but then I tend to move on to the Ice Cavern for Eye grinding, which kind of backseats them again.

  10. #10
    Nerf This~ Laddy's Avatar
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    I'd argue Black Mage and Fighter are the only truly essential classes in the game. I tend to go Fighter, Thief, Red Mage, Black Mage.



  11. #11
    VeloZer0's Avatar
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    In the original game (and FF:Origins version) magic damage is completely independent of caster stats. So red mages do exactly as much magic damage as black wizards. That an magic damage isn't all that much to write home about.

    This also means all the lower level spells never increase in damage making them completely useless later on. They do less damage than the black wizard's melee attacks. Combine this with the old tier based magic system and you have a character that gets to be useful for a total of 10 turns every dungeon.
    >>Am willing to change opinions based on data<<

  12. #12
    Untalented Game Designer FFNut's Avatar
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    I'm with you on the black Mage. I've always had one in my party. My Original party was a Fighter Thief, black Mage, and a White Mage. Plays that party for years. Now the only substitution I make is with the Theif. I'll add another Fighter, or a Black Belt. I'm very anti Red Mage as you get deeper in the game he just falls off with his roll. It's like gimping yourself at the finish line of a race. It makes no sence at all. They are only really effective for the first 3/4 of the game. After that they hurt you in the party.

  13. #13
    (charm)anders was right Pike's Avatar
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    Maybe my view is different because I never played the NES version, just whatever the GBA port was. I'm guessing they made some tweaks for it.

  14. #14
    Ghost of Christmas' past theundeadhero's Avatar
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    If I ever play anything but the NES version again, I may consider using one, but that's not likely to happen.

    Bork Bork

  15. #15
    Untalented Game Designer FFNut's Avatar
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    Just did some testing on the PSP Port. Red Mage in inferior in every respect to that of its counter parts. It can equip the same things as a fighter at the beginning. Fighter out hits them bye close to double. The spells you have to buy upgrade later than the Wizards, plus they hit a quarter as hard as a real Mage. In the end they were the worst class in the game. I couldn't wait to put them to pasture.

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