Western "Censorship" In Star Ocean: Integrity and Faithlessness

[Freya]

Oh man a guy just tried to argue with me on twitter that we shouldn't make changes because of the artistic integrity thing. Said he's passionate about games and so he cares more about those changes. Then when i mention the Lightning's bigger boobs thing he said that was okay so the game could get more "attention".

You can't say you're against changing things because of artistic integrity and then say it's okay if it's boobs being changed. Just say you're upset cause you like sexual things. That's okay if you like that! Use that as your angle, don't try to veil it as something else.

"EVEN with the changes to the breasts, it didn't make it better".

Look up, twitter person, that spec flying over your head is the point. Sorry, I went and looked at your argument because I was curious, I hope that wasn't weird. My absolute favourite was when he pulled a "First they came for the socialists" argument, but with Butts.

Like technically this SO5 character is listed as 18 but she's modeled younger looking. It's kind of odd we're seeing her underwear anyway with that case. And the Tracer thing, it is a little out of character. Comparing the changes to the end of all boobs and butts is over the top.

[Fox]

Like technically this SO5 character is listed as 18 but she's modeled younger looking. It's kind of odd we're seeing her underwear anyway with that case. And the Tracer thing, it is a little out of character. Comparing the changes to the end of all boobs and butts is over the top.

Honestly if there was going to be any "controversy" here I would have expected it to come from fishnet-witch.

[Elpizo]

I find it unnecesary and it bugs me that companies still feel the need to do this for the western releases of certain games. Fire Emblem and Bravely Default come to mind, and it was just as unnecesary there, too. (Not because of "artistic value" or some such, don't be silly.)

I know this will come as a shock to some, but have at it anyway: people outside of Japan like boobs and butts too. We won't go into mortified cardiac arrest just because we saw a flash of panties or some cleavage. Yeah, it's fan-service, so why do fans outside of Japan not get served? <.< This is FF3 on the SNES levels of silly changes.

And for anyone decrying that some of these characters might be underage; relax, they're not real, they don't really exist, they are polygons and pixels on your tv and if some people out there like seeing said character's panties it doesn't mean said people are about to run out the door and molest the first minor they come across. Breathe. Calm down. Put down that phone, no need to call the cops.

Sheesh.

[Formalhaut]

I'm not seeing the big deal either way. To see both changes, you'd have to hike up the camera in strange angles. It's far less egregious than FFXV's foray into censorship.

[Freya]

I find it unnecesary and it bugs me that companies still feel the need to do this for the western releases of certain games. Fire Emblem and Bravely Default come to mind, and it was just as unnecesary there, too. (Not because of "artistic value" or some such, don't be silly.)

I know this will come as a shock to some, but have at it anyway: people outside of Japan like boobs and butts too. We won't go into mortified cardiac arrest just because we saw a flash of panties or some cleavage. Yeah, it's fan-service, so why do fans outside of Japan not get served? <.< This is FF3 on the SNES levels of silly changes.

And for anyone decrying that some of these characters might be underage; relax, they're not real, they don't really exist, they are polygons and pixels on your tv and if some people out there like seeing said character's panties it doesn't mean said people are about to run out the door and molest the first minor they come across. Breathe. Calm down. Put down that phone, no need to call the cops.

Sheesh.

Ehhhhhhh


EHHHHhhhhhh

Still extremely not healthy of a thing to encourage, pixelated or not.

[Elpizo]

Ehhhhhhh


EHHHHhhhhhh

Still extremely not healthy of a thing to encourage, pixelated or not.

Encourage what? Not having a phobia of boobs, butts and panties in a video game? Heaven forbid our poor, sheltered western children learn that human beings have sex and that babies are squeezed out of a woman's cooch and not brought by the white stork.

Relax. In general people are sensible enough to know that what can be done in video games cannot (always) be done in real life. Otherwise we'd all be shooting and t-bagging everyone out there who we don't like, stealing their cars and shagging their wives. But we don't do that, do we? Indeed we do not, because we're not @$$holes. This is no different.

The fact that glorified murder, torture, terrorism, bloodshed and theft in games is totally accepted by people, but as soon as a character shows some cleavage or her panties all of gamerland collectively gasps in utter shock and indignation decrying "oh my, should we really allow such a thing? I mean, we wouldn't want to encourage such behaviour, would we? What if we offend anyone, heaven forbid?! Better censor that trout!", never ceases to baffle me.

It's all much ado about nothing. Don't want to see your character's panties? Don't tilt the camera so you can peer under her skirt. Don't want to see Edea Lee in the Bravo Bikini? Don't have her wear it. Boom, done.

You're welcome.

[Freya]

Not to encourage young girls showing their skimoy underwear. Sounds like you're all for teenage girls in their underwear. That's.... Well okay....

Have blood have gore, have sexuality. Let's just try to not model young kids that way.

It's just as creepy as the guys who had a countdown for Emma Watson to hit 18. That's weird, she's still young. It's not a magical number.

Japanese games are happy to sexualize young girls and yes as a western i find that so smurfing weird. It's not a just "don't look" kind if option it's a that makes me feel uncomfortable. If the girl looked older, than that's more acceptable but kids are kids and we shouldn't sexualize them.

As someone who had so much pressure as a teen to be "sexy" and acted older than I should have, having characters be this way just creates even more issues for girls who are like how I was.

So no. People have body pillows of these type of characters. Or various other word stuff. People aren't sensible. And that's what's sooooo weird.

The tracer stuff, that's alright. the character IS older and acts and looks it. It's no big deal. this character looks young and that's weird.

If you can't see an issue with a young girl showing her underwear off, pixelated or not, I'm worried. From your response though you're missing the youn girl point and latching on the "well violence is okay why not boobs!" And that wasn't the point. It was the character being so young. That's what's I'm arguing so please try to re-read and argue the point mentioned first.

It's okay to want boobs. That's alright. Have boobs and cleavage, I've never said not to. Just don't sexaulize teens and don't do something that's out of character for a character in an effort to make them sexy, that's weird.

Also, I'm super relaxed BTW, laying in bed ATM. So please stop telling me to relax. Just because I share a differing opinion doesn't mean I'm throwing fits. You'll do best to understand that in these here internet conversations.

[Elpizo]

Are the people who watch the young girl's panties actively going out to see rl minors panties? No? Then shut up and let them watch all their loli panties and hentai that they want. Whatever makes someone happy and does not harm anyone else is not something anyone should have any sort of problem with, period. That is all there is to it.

Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm not planning to go out on the street and molest the first child I see just because I don't see a problem with panties on a pre-18 year old in a video game, just as I am not going to go out and buy a gun just because I like shooting demons in DooM. So you can take your worry for my mental health back, thank you, I don't need it.

As for the people who do molest young girls or want to see their panties, those would have done so whether or not they could see video game panties or not, so even then there is no argument against this, just as there's none with violence.

Putting all of that aside, I would also like to inform you that people do think about sex and have sexual interests long before they're eightteen. Sex does not suddenly "switch on" when someone becomes eightteen. So if a fifteen, sixteen or even nineteen year old is interested in a fifteen or sixteen year old's attractiveness, know what that is? Natural. I know, it's unbelievable, but true.

Also, you do need to relax, given you feel the need to be worried over things that are not at all worrisome. So yes, relax. People have weird interests, it happens, it's okay, chill out, relax, breeeaaaathe, there's no mass conspiracy to make you like teen panties, nor are you surrounded by would-be teen-rapists. There is absolutely nothing for you to be worried about if you would just mind your own business and let people like what they like and do what they want (bearing in mind nobody else gets hurt or damaged - without consent, that is, as some people are in to pain - by what they like or do, of course, as I said before). Relax.

[Fynn]

I know, I was looking at 250 Eurogamer comments earlier. It's baffling why it's such a big deal.

Do you think we can treat every change in the same way? Did the SJWs force Square to include airships in FFXV?

I think there's a lot of hiding behind "protecting the artistic vision" from people who are actually just interested in seeing sexy butts. And it's fine to want to see sexy butts, I'm sure many of us here on eoff are fans of such, I just wish we could admit that's what it's about.

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I don't think I ever "this'd" so much, you guys. This is exactly the point I made when I made a thread on a similar topic waaay back.

[Fox]

Are the people who watch the young girl's panties actively going out to see rl minors panties? No? Then shut up and let them watch all their loli panties and hentai that they want. Whatever makes someone happy and does not harm anyone else is not something anyone should have any sort of problem with, period. That is all there is to it.

Do actually agree with this.

So no. People have body pillows of these type of characters. Or various other word stuff. People aren't sensible. And that's what's sooooo weird.

Hi! I have a daki of an anime character. Canonically in the show she's 17. Is that why I like her? No, I just like her design. I don't think you can really apply the same standards to fictional characters because a) they're not real and cannot be exploited and b) they often look nothing like actual humans look like. You can create a character that you'd guess is 30 years old and say "actually she's 15". Is that creepy? With characters like this age is just a number in the biography, it's pretty meaningless.

HAVING SAID THAT...

As someone who had so much pressure as a teen to be "sexy" and acted older than I should have, having characters be this way just creates even more issues for girls who are like how I was.

I totally get this, and can definitely see why it can make people uncomfortable especially when you're deliberately trying to make your underage characters sex objects. To have "Here's a young character who also happens to be cute" is one thing, to say "Here's a young character we've put in effort to make you lust over" is somewhat different. Now, for the reasons above I'm not convinced there's anything inherently wrong with the latter for the people who enjoy it, but it's clear that others will feel uncomfortable with it and it's probably not material you want to expose actual kids to.

With that in mind, maybe a mass market RPG isn't the most sensible place for it.

Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm not planning to go out on the street and molest the first child I see just because I don't see a problem with panties on a pre-18 year old in a video game, just as I am not going to go out and buy a gun just because I like shooting demons in DooM. So you can take your worry for my mental health back, thank you, I don't need it.

As for the people who do molest young girls or want to see their panties, those would have done so whether or not they could see video game panties or not, so even then there is no argument against this, just as there's none with violence.

Putting all of that aside, I would also like to inform you that people do think about sex and have sexual interests long before they're eightteen. Sex does not suddenly "switch on" when someone becomes eightteen. So if a fifteen, sixteen or even nineteen year old is interested in a fifteen or sixteen year old's attractiveness, know what that is? Natural. I know, it's unbelievable, but true.

I doubt Freya was trying to imply you're some kind of closet molester just 'cuz you like short skirts on Star Ocean characters.

[Elpizo]

To be honest I don't even know the first thing about Star Ocean or its characters, having never played any of the games and no real intent to do so any time soon, so there's no real personal stake for me in this and I honestly have no real preference to long or short skirts on these characters. Just using it as an example to make my point, in this case.

Thing is, I'm not saying Freya can't be uncomfortable with it, or that anyone can't be uncomfortable with it (as long as they're not trying to actively hinder anyone who is comfortable with it from being comfortable with it, that is), I'm just arguing that that's no real reason to put this censorship into place. Let people decide for themselves what they want, is what I'm trying to say in the end. Those who are uncomfortable with panty shots can then opt to not buy the game or to not play with that character or take care to never aim their camera that way, while those who love it can stare at their video game panties all day long.

But having the choice made for us, as if all western gamers have a phobia of panties or wouldn't understand or would be uncomfortable with it, just feels belittling. I can make up my own mind, tyvm, developers, so I would like the option of choice. There's no need to talk down to us like this. We're not fragile and we don't need sheltering from things that you think will weird us out. Let me decide if I find it weird or not, so that I can then make a decision of what to do next.

If Freya doesn't want to buy Star Ocean because there are teen panties in it, that's fine, her choice. If Steve wants to buy Star Ocean because it has teen panties in it, his choice, he can do so. However, the line for me is drawn if Freya wants to take away Steve's teen panties because she's uncomfortable with it. If Steve is not hurting anyone (without their consent), nobody, not Freya nor anyone else, has the right to take away Steve's video game teen panties, no matter how weird she thinks Steve is.

Because if we're honestly going to censor things because people are 'uncomfortable' with certain matters, well... Do I really need to point out how slippery that slope is?

[Freya]

You're arguing for more teen panties to be shown. You know how odd that sounds?

Slippery slope? You sound like the twitter guy. End of the world if a teen character shows less butt. Oh no.

This isn't to call out for every boob and butt to be censored, it's requesting that teens don't show off their underwear as that promotes the mentality that it's okay to look at young girls in such a way. You can think that way, you can like that stuff, it isn't a war against thoughts. That doesn't mean those thoughts of wanting teenage underwear is an okay thing. Pixelated, animated, or not. Just because you can think that way and decide that's okay, doesn't mean it is a respectable thought and opinion to have for others. You're free to have it, and i'm free to say it's weird and uncomfortable. But why do you and the strange choices of a Japanese developer get to dictate that that is okay? Culturally in japan it is more acceptable to be creepy about it and show young girls like that. In western markets it's not. Changing things to fit culturally with other markets isn't a bad thing, it's respectable to those cultures.

I don't have a phobia of panties, or butts, or cleavage. Far from it. I just don't think it's healthy to promote the attraction to teens in a sexual manner.

[Depression Moon]

Damn, I didn't think I'd find this crossover into EOFF. I don't really care for that trout. I mean good. I find it interesting that all the people I've seen defending it on the net are men.

[Fynn]

Considering all media is geared to cater to the male gaze and men have become accustomed that they get everything they want from the media, it's no surprise that they're acting butthurt that someone is taking away something they usually get handed to them on a plate.

[Fox]

Because if we're honestly going to censor things because people are 'uncomfortable' with certain matters, well... Do I really need to point out how slippery that slope is?

Again - not censorship. Not even close to censorship.