Was Tidus real before he became a dream? or was he created?
So. I was wondering. The Spira that Tidus is unfamiliar with is 1,000 years into the future. So as the story progresses. Tidus is referred to as a Dream of the Fayth. So what I'm wondering. Was Tidus a real person in his time and was pulled from his time to stop Sin?....or was Tidus just a mix of thousands of dead people or the Fayth that they dreamed up and he was an avatar of the Fayth fighting as one individual with a false history and childhood to make him sentient?
I always have very hard time understanding what people mean with "real" because many do not understand that Tidus is in fact real. He has a physical body and the consciousness of an individual being. His existence is merely bound to the dream. But if that is what you mean, okay.
And the game basically hints everything Dream Zanarkand is supposed to be is a manifest of memories of Zanarkand that Yevon wanted to be kept alive. So yes, you could say so. And X-2 showed the blueprint for Tidus, even though it was never fully explained if and how much the connection is supposed to be, as Tidus is his own working person with another family and life, et cetera so you could say Dream Zanarkand is a reflection but not supposed to reflect everything exactly the same way and definitely not supposed to be a place for exactly the deceased ones to live in.
Isn't Tidus a dream version of Shuyin? That's what I assumed, seeing as their appearance and backstories as blitzball players are virtually identical.
I wanted to say that without saying his name. Just that X-2 never was totally fleshing it out.Originally Posted by Mr. Carnelian
I never really understood if he was indeed real or not. He is real in the story, he isn't just a ghost floating around that no one can talk to, or touch. I fact he makes a star out of himself in the Blitzball. He makes conscience decisions that effect the life given to him, and shows emotion throughout. If that is what you call real, then he is real. However he wasn't created in the same way we would conceive creation of another person I'd say he is very much real in that world.
Actually it is possible that he was still conceived by Jecht and Tidus's mother. They were corporeal after all as well so nothing forbids that. It is never hinted though if his own birth was actually through the summoned dream or if he was conceived the ordinary way, still making him bound to the dream.
My view (at odds with many official sources) -- LONG
Dream Zanarkand is a simulation, Cities:Skylines on steroids, except that instead of running on tech hardware it runs on spiritual energy. Human brains sealed in stone instead of multithreading CPU's. Yevon's nonstop Summoning is the game engine, the memories of the dozens of Zanarkandians sealed into the cliff face outside Gagazet provide the game maps, and it is left as a free-running simulation to act as a living memorial to Zanarkand-that-was, the Zanarkand glimpsed in the video sphere Seymour showed the party. These views of Zanarkand have life, light, sound, and energy. Because the megafayth only has a few dozen souls to populate a city of millions (think NYC), duplication is inevitable, witness the red-haired boy among the autograph-seekers. Sims have perception filters to not notice their dupes, because otherwise leads to insanity. Tidus is most likely a duplicate of one of the fayth-bound. We see the unnamed original ascending skyward in a bubble when Yevon's nonstop summoning is ended. Like The Sims, the game engine provides its sims with the ability to procreate, children thus generated are provided appearance, skills, and attributes according to what's available. I also tend to think a few wandering souls of the deceased might (accidentally) find their way to DZ and join the simulation. Yevon allows this because it provides variety, entertainment, and sanity to the fayth. Shuyin "MAY" have visited, lived a lifetime there in a vain effort to forget Lenne, but left "descendants" in the game. Jecht (and hence Tidus) are the descendants of "immigrants", thus not really part of the ROM, the vanilla game, and thus are able to exit it. Jecht by swimming off the edge of the flat earth, Tidus by being yanked out by Auron and Jecht, using Sin's power and ability to bridge real Spira and the Farplane (an ability of all Aeons). It is my belief that the simulation was reset to vanilla because of Sin's encroachment, which is why Tidus's houseboat home was even more weirdly empty and silent when he revisited Dream Zanarkand as a result of touching the megafayth. However, because his body is anchored in Spira and not the simulation any more, he couldn't stay there. Tidus (and Auron for that matter) are solid on Spira because pyreflies and willpower (and their connection to Jecht/Sin), and fade because of that same connection to Sin. Auron's purpose as a "unsent" was also fulfilled. Tidus comes back in X2 becauseplayer grinding through innumerable tasksYuna, summoning, and pyreflies. Tidus's life experiences are real...because he experienced them. He was unfamiliar with the modern world in the same sense that playing GTA wouldn't prepare you for moving into Los Angeles in reality, even if you were playing up to the instant you arrived. The real, thousand-year-old ruins of Zanarkand are as we see them, plus the chunks of ruin being carried around inside Sin, maybe a few block's worth. Ruined Zanarkand is unlit, empty, and fiend-infested. My theory is that Sin's initial summoning (NOT by Yevon) was hurried (possibly in response to Vegnagun) and partially botched -- when is came into being, it took part of the surrounding turf with it (like MIDAS in Front Mission 3). Sin goes berserk, thrashing Zanarkand, because it's intended target (Vegnagun) was nowhere to be found. Yevon, leading a band of refugees out of Zanarkand and through Gagazet (Ronso cannot keep so many people here. You must go.), realizes that the army of the city of St. Bevelle are waiting in what is now the Calm Lands; they don't know the war is over, much less that they'd won. Yevon, to preserve the lives and memories, embarks on the greatest summoning ever...the living memorial of Zanarkand. Once committed to doing this, in order to remain uninterrupted for all eternity, Yevon needed a power source. His ability to hijack another Summoner's Aeon yielded small amount of spirtual energy when he could snare one. The Aeon's fayth, sealed in stone, was untouchable, but the Summoner's investment into the summoning...ahhhh, tasty! By communing privately with his daughter Yunalesca (warrior Zaon was totally mind-blind), they devised a plan to seize the biggest aeon ever...Sin. Saving the world from it was almost incidental; he just needed it's power to keep DZ operating. The first step was for the pair to sever the link between Sin and it's fayth (its unnamed summoner perished during the summoning), the ruined statue seen in Zanarkand Temple. This rendered Sin unanchored, on the surface a bad thing, except that now when Yevon hijacked it....and he did at first opportunity...he could fully inhabit it. Sin can contain huge stores of spiritual energy, and that is how Yevon would use it from then on. The entire Final Aeon scheme, with an unanchored, unique, ad-hoc creation made every generation, was designed to feed Yevon, a truly horrific form of spiritual vampirism. Yunalesca loved her husband, but she was loyal to the core to her father. It was a hard sacrifice, but she did it willingly (and without telling her soon-to-be-late husband the full implications). The energies accumulated by eating a hapless would-be High Summoner's aeons (again, the Summoner's spiritual investment only, the indestructible fayths slid through Sin's digestion like coffee beans through a civet cat's gullet) were stored within Sin, to maintain Yevon and his all-important summoning. She remained behind as unsent to be the only source of ad-hoc aeon creation lore on the surface of Spira...which is why Seymour's mother approached her, but that's another story. Side note: the very fact that Anima has an actual stone fayth and can be cast by persons other than Seymour (in fact all future Summoners of Spira would have the option, had Yuna done things the orthodox way) disproves the notion that Anima is a Final Aeon. She was created with arcane lore unknown to Spira as a whole (possibly even to the Church of Yevon), but it wasn't quite the same process as a FA.
Sorry about the Wall O Text
A swear it had paragraph breaks in it when I first wrote it. I'm a little rusty on my BBCODE...
Sort of...
More like a simulated descendant of Shuyin, using the character profile/skin of one of the people sealed in the stone cliff face outside of Gagazet. Remember, we see a bubble containing a likeness of Tidus ascending to the sky with all the other bubbles of the megafayth when Sin is destroyed. Duplicates are possible inside the simulation that is Dream Zanarkand, witness the red-haired boy.
Descendant
Shuyin died a virgin I think.
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