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Thread: Beauty and the Beast

  1. #61
    Friendship *is* magic. MJN SEIFER's Avatar
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    I'm looking forward to seeing this. I actually really love seeing remakes that are live action, when the original was not. It's always fun to see how they will do certain things, and it's ultimately something that fascinates me.

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    'Just Friends' Formalhaut's Avatar
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    Me and Mr. Carny are thinking of seeing this next weekend.

    I should probably watch the original animation first though.


  3. #63
    The King's Shield The Summoner of Leviathan's Avatar
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    So anyone's thought of Disney's first "gay moment" going to be in Beauty and the Beast with LeFou being gay and in love with Gaston?

    While the whole "want to be him/want to bang him" feeling is something cool to explore I feel like picking the antagonist's sidekick whose name literally means "the crazy" kinda bad choice. I think diverse depictions of gays is important but picking this as your official first gay moment/dedicated subplot is not the best. Especially since Disney has a history of gay-coding villains.


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    Quote Originally Posted by The Summoner of Leviathan View Post
    So anyone's thought of Disney's first "gay moment" going to be in Beauty and the Beast with LeFou being gay and in love with Gaston?

    While the whole "want to be him/want to bang him" feeling is something cool to explore I feel like picking the antagonist's sidekick whose name literally means "the crazy" kinda bad choice. I think diverse depictions of gays is important but picking this as your official first gay moment/dedicated subplot is not the best. Especially since Disney has a history of gay-coding villains.
    I'm inclined to agree after I heard about it. 'Gays are evil' is a pretty established trope and making the first gay moment be about the villain and his sidekick is... I don't know.

    How are they going to characterise Gaston and LeFou? If they are able to characterise them as flawed but decent individuals as opposed to rampaging, cackling villains, then it'll work.


  5. #65
    Recognized Member Scotty_ffgamer's Avatar
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    All I know is I now have a lot of posts on Facebook of people refusing to see it specifically because there is a gay character, which is always sad to see.

    I know nothing of this remake really, but I could see it be done well depending on what they do with the characters. I could see it be done bad too. We'll see soon I suppose.

  6. #66
    Radical Dreamer Fynn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Formalhaut View Post
    Me and Mr. Carny are thinking of seeing this next weekend.

    I should probably watch the original animation first though.
    the smurf, formy?

  7. #67
    The Misanthropist charliepanayi's Avatar
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    The whole LeFou thing has provoked criticism, I'll be interested to see if they play the relationship between him and Gaston exactly like they did in the animated film. In light of the news about LeFou part of me wonders if in this version Gaston is still defeated but doesn't die.
    "Excuse me Miss, do you like pineapple?"

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    OMG spoilers.

    Kidding, I already knew about that. I'd wager Gaston won't die in this movie if they characterise him more sympathetically and make his actions less reprehensible. It's certainly possible and makes for a slightly more optimistic ending.

    I do wonder whether Gaston will notice LeFou's affections, or even consummate those affections.


  9. #69
    Radical Dreamer Fynn's Avatar
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    Nah, he'll be even more of a smurfboy than in the original, I think. Which worked before - not every villain needs depth in order to serve their purpose in the narrative. Heck, the most memorable and effective villains in the series have been straight foils to the protagonist with zero redeeming qualities and we still loved them for it. The story of Beauty and the Beast is all about the growth of the titular two, so we don't need Gaston to be more complex in order to make that interesting.


    And Lefou was already pretty heavily coded gay in the original, so I really don't see the controversy. I mean, in the end maybe it's not very fortunate for the only queer character in a story to be this, uh, bumbling, but then shouldn't we normalize queer characters by implementing various types of characters, both flat and rounded, who also happen to be queer?

  10. #70
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    I see your point: if anything villains with overly complex motivations and personalities can be terrible. I'm trying not to say the S-word here, but he springs to mind immediately when I think of bad villains.

    Thing is though, I'm not sure how they'll be able to play off LeFou's affections without some sort of feedback from Gaston the villain. If Gaston is played straight (no pun intended) as this simple smurfboy villain, how would he react to LeFou's affections? And we know something will happen because it is being described as a subplot and a 'moment'. If the entire subplot was just LeFou monologuing to himself it couldn't really serve and peter out.

    If Gaston acknowledges that his sidekick has feelings for him, but he's played as a smurfboy villain, the only recourse I see his character doing is to push LeFou away or say something mean. Unless his redeeming quality is that he actually cares for LeFou enough (romantically or platonically, doesn't really matter) that he openly accepts LeFou's sexuality for who he is.

    We've talked about Gaston a lot. It'd be interesting to see how if and how they characterise LeFou in this film.

    Either way, it is a brave choice for their first attempt at a gay subplot, that's for sure.

    EDIT: Fynn makes an interesting point which I completely forgot to address. Personally, I don't mind LGBT characters being villains, or the sidekicks of villains, or being morally dubious. Because gay people can be anything in society, from the heroes, the villains and everything inbetween. As long as it is done well, and not just being bad for the evulz. Having said that, the 'gays are villains' trope is pretty well-established, that it is surprising to see them choose it here.
    Last edited by Formalhaut; 03-03-2017 at 02:09 PM.


  11. #71
    Radical Dreamer Fynn's Avatar
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    Do we actually have anything confirming that Lefou has the hots for Gaston in particular? Because from the sources I've seen they only indicated that him being gay is an important moment for Lefou, so I kind of understood it as, there's a big coming out thing for Lefou, and not that he's actually gonna be seducing Gaston or anything.

    Also, you keep skirting around the most important issue, Forms

    Quote Originally Posted by Formalhaut View Post
    I should probably watch the original animation first though.
    So, do you wanna fix this now or should I come and hurt you severely?

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fynn View Post
    Do we actually have anything confirming that Lefou has the hots for Gaston in particular? Because from the sources I've seen they only indicated that him being gay is an important moment for Lefou, so I kind of understood it as, there's a big coming out thing for Lefou, and not that he's actually gonna be seducing Gaston or anything.
    I don't think Disney is too secure in themselves to have an openly gay seductive scene in one of their films. I've been reading news about the film's impression with some Christians, and the ones that aren't up in arms about it are writing their own commentary articles about the ones up in arms about it. Unfortunate though it may be, I don't think we'll be seeing seduction or any sort of gay physical intimacy in this film. And they could probably do it in this film because it is live-action. I'm just guessing here, but I imagine it'd be harder to convince Disney to include a gay subplot in their animations.

    I think LeFou will have a coming out moment, but such moments necessarily imply that there is someone to come out to. I think that will be Gaston. Or maybe someone else? Who knows, we're just speculating at this point. I will say though, I'm really looking forward to seeing what'll happen. I've not discussed so much about a film pre-release in ages.

    EDIT: Oh, and I'll see the original animation with Mr. Carny at some point before we see this film.


  13. #73
    Radical Dreamer Fynn's Avatar
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    We might as well get a Paranorman moment with an off-screen love interest. Lefou was literally a walking gag in the original and I doubt his role is gonna be important enough for his sexuality to be the source of such controversy. So there's really nothing indicating ANYBODY that could be the source of his affection.

    It'd be kind of weird if it was Gaston honestly, especially if he turned out to reviprlcate, since that would basically be saying "all those aggressively hyper-masculine narcissists are actually just in the closet! Closet homosexuals are the real villain!"

    Kind of undermines the original's message regarding masculinity and gender roles in general

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fynn View Post
    It'd be kind of weird if it was Gaston honestly, especially if he turned out to reviprlcate, since that would basically be saying "all those aggressively hyper-masculine narcissists are actually just in the closet! Closet homosexuals are the real villain!"
    I have a feeling Gaston won't reciprocate. Because I agree, if it turns out Gaston was actually gay or bisexual all along, it falls incredibly close to what you put quite accurately.

    Assuming Gaston is played like the original. If they soften the role of his character, there could be enough space for them to avoid falling into that trope. Whether or not they will remains to be seen. I've not viewed any of the trailers because I don't really watch film trailers, so I don't have an inkling of how they'll play it.

    Was LeFou portrayed as quite wimpish, effeminate and ineffectual in the original? It'll be interesting to see whether or not they maintain that if that was the case. They would be painting a target on their chest if they made LeFou into the effeminate gay man pining after the buff, muscular man. Which, you know, happens, but I get the feeling if the characterisation of the two characters is key to the whole thing's success.

    If they are viewed as relying too much on tropes or worn stereotypes, people will complain. On the other hand, merely having a gay character in the film is making some other people complain.


  15. #75
    Radical Dreamer Fynn's Avatar
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    Lefou Osceola Lefou. He is the Fool. Wouldn't call him effeminate, but his distinct features are his wackiness and his undying admiration of Gaston.

    He was really fun to watch tbh and it's sad I won't get to see him speak with his head stuck in a tuba this time around. Apparently Josh Gad values his teeth or something, idk

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