Moana

[Skyblade]

While the character style can be overdone, I actually like the way Flynn is handled. His entire story in the movie is about his true character conflicting with his own perceived image and the persona he's built up for years. I always felt that his heart was just as good, just as strong, as Aladdin's, but that he hated to admit it. Stuck in the underworld for so long, where it's so easy to get hurt, he shielded himself, building up this "tough guy" image that was needed to survive in that world, and would protect him. But once he gets into a situation where caring helps him, it threatens to tear apart all he's built. He actually goes overboard on conforming to his persona because he sees it being threatened, and he's scared of what it would mean for him. It always seemed that he was forcing it, overcompensating, versus just acting on his basic feelings and instincts. And he learns to trust and open himself up again over the course of the movie.

And I completely disagree about Kristoff.

The day before, he could less, that a young eighteen-year-old girl was going to marry a dangerous psycho, that finds pleasure in decapitation.

Uh huh. And tell me, what do you know about the personality traits of royalty from another country?

To me, it was very clear that Kristoff had problems with her marrying a guy she just met from the very beginning. He thought it was weird and crazy and moving way too fast, and his reaction showed that from the beginning. But, he didn't feel it was his place to say more than he did. And, frankly, he was right. For one thing, Anna is royalty. But, for another, he just met her. Yes, her marrying someone she just met is weird, but he only met her five minutes ago himself. What position is he in to judge her life or her choices? He didn't know anything about the other prince, except that she wanted to marry him. He could've been a paragon of virtue and justice and the greatest guy on the planet for all he knows.

Kristoff did something when her heart froze, because that was when he was actually in a place where he had to take a stand. Her life depended on the relationship being true love, he knew she probably hadn't found that in a day, and he new he had to try to help her some way. Had she been unfrozen, but nothing else occurred, he'd still have let her marry the guy. Because it's her choice, and he knows that.

[Fynn]

As for Nick, he's kind of justified in that he's like that due to being a victim of prejudice all his life.

Not to mention the point of all those movies is that things don't always need to be as they seem and people don't need to be as bad as they think they are. Character development happens and people can learn from their mistakes and become better people.

And really, I think you're selling the princesses short by painting them as victims of assholery because honestly, not one of them gives into it. They either stand up to them or don't care, which really helps both sides develop as people. It's kind of like what happened with Belle and Beast where people blame it on Stockholm syndrome but Belle never really falls for Beast until he starts to put in the extra effort to not be an asshole anymore, for which he becomes motivated partly due to her strong will and stubbornness.

The point is, Disney's done this character type for ages and the reason is simple: we're all flawed and we all have moments of assholery, but we like to believe that we can overcome this and get a second chance and make right what once went wrong. This is what makes the "Jerk With a Heart of Gold" trope so relatable. Because pretty much everyone was a jerk to someone, no matter how much of a pure cinnamon roll too good for this world, too pure, we want to be.


And yeah, I am totally sold on Maui. I like how he looks - he's got that squished face like a pug or Persian cat that puts him in the ugly cute territory which we haven't seen in a main character since Quasimodo. And he's proud and arrogant but also has his butt monkey moments in the trailer which I think has huge comedic potential. I wasn't that interested in this movie so far, but this trailer made me really wanna go see it.

[charliepanayi]

If you read manga or watch anime, you get used to the 'tsundere' (acts tough but is a big softie underneath it all) type pretty quickly!

[maybee]

Maybee, you make some good points, but you're always so abrasive about it. I don't mean to attack you, but if you want people to hear what you say, you should state your opinion without going on the offensive all of the time (and I am totally guilty of this a lot, so I Get. It.).

Sorry, this is just a bit of a personal subject for me, and I have deep personal reasons why I hate this trope when it comes to anything in fiction. Because me trying to see the best in people, and believing that somebody a little rough around the edges, has a good heart, deep inside, has lead me to some of the worst ex-friendships and relationships in my life. Sorry to come off a bit...snappy.

Basically, I've been taught from bad personal experiences that a jerk is a jerk, and is a jerk deep down, there's no hidden warmth to them.

The point is, Disney's done this character type for ages and the reason is simple: we're all flawed and we all have moments of assholery, but we like to believe that we can overcome this and get a second chance and make right what once went wrong. This is what makes the "Jerk With a Heart of Gold" trope so relatable. Because pretty much everyone was a jerk to someone, no matter how much of a pure cinnamon roll too good for this world, too pure, we want to be..

Really, really, really disagree with you there Fynn.

[Fynn]

IM not saying that's how it actually is, just the reasons why many people find this archetype relatable. You don't have to be one of those people. I'm just hoping it'll be easier for you to deal with if you look at it that way.

[Mirage]

Never saw Kristoff as an asshole. What else can you do when a princess tells you she wants to marry some random prince right after meeting him? It's not like Kristoff knew what the prince was planning on, or probably much about royality at all. He's just some dude moving ice.

[Fynn]

Guys, this is coming out as Vaiana here wtf

[charliepanayi]

Probably a trademark issue of some kind. It's called Oceania in Italy as Moana is the name of a famous porn star there

[Mirage]

Should have played on her success and kept the name. I'm sure thousands of old men would watch it on the first night!

[DMKA]

I just got back from seeing it. It was rad. It had that Disney magic that all Musker/Clements films do (arguably with the sole exception of Treasure Planet). The music was mostly great, and it's an eye-poppingly gorgeous film. The two leads were played wonderfully and had great chemistry.

If it's not flawless, then it's pretty close. My one personal complaint is that Pua got so little screen time.

[Colonel Angus]

Saw this today & thought it was a blast! Great story, characters, music. Like everything that's good about Disney movies, it knew how to tug @ your heartstrings & make you laugh.

[charliepanayi]

It's good! Best bit was Jemaine Clement channeling David Bowie for the song Shiny

[krissy]

[Pike]

I just saw this and I liked it a lot. I really like how the movie kind of subverted the "chosen one" trope by making you wonder if Moana was a the chosen one or if maybe she was just really determined. I thought she was a great character and I loved that idiot chicken. Great soundtrack too.

[Night Fury]

Watched this over the weekend. It was beautiful, and slightly more gut wrenching to watch since I (SPOILER) just very recently lost my own Grandmother

10/10 imo.