Knights of the Old Republic vs. Jade Empire

[Forsaken Lover]

So I was replaying KOTOR 1 but my Evil Paths thread got me thinking on the fact I never did finish Jade Empire. I played it through once, got to damn near the end, but then I realized I had screwed up a bunch and I wouldn't get a satisfactory ending. I had neglected my companions which is not something I would normally do but I got sucked up in the plots and subplots and it felt like every time I did try to talk to them, nothing happened. I guess I was just missing all the important dialogue somehow. Anyway, between that and disappointment at how short the game was, I kinda just quit.

But I want to replay it now. I liked it a lot which is why I hated how short it was. There was so much more that could have been done with that game.

I originally thought of making a thread comparing just the "twists" of the two games since they seem so beloved. But that seems too narrow a topic for a thread so why not just incorporate it into a larger comparison of the two games? KOTOR and JE do feel very similar in some ways to me. Starting as I did with Dragon Age, KOTOR and JE both feel very....primitive. Or maybe dated is a better word? Just the overall area designs and dialogue and whatnot all feel very reminiscent of this period of BW.

I'm honestly not sure which game I like better. I used to think KOTOR was the worst BW game I've played but looking back, maybe I was being unfair to it. The fact it didn't live up to the hype doesn't make it bad. Even still, I find its character writing wholly inferior to later BW games. JE honestly isn't too much better because it gives you a whole lot of nothing in terms of characters. Like the Drunken Master guy who's just there to throw you beer or Black Whirlwind. Can you believe BW was the only character who's arc I finished in my first run? That only happened because the stupid game wouldn't let me kill him. What was with the sudden railroading anyway? I had my nice new friend who ran that arena place and we were getting along swimmingly and then this buffoon walks in and suddenly, EH! Denied! That moron tried to kill me yet he now gets to ruin my subplot progress? smurf him.

....yeah, anyway. What do you all think?
Which game do you prefer?
Which twist do you think is better? I knew about Revan of course but I didn't know about Master Li. All I knew is that there was a big spoiler which honestly was as good as saying Master Li is the real villain. When you know to watch for something, it's pretty obvious he's a very shady guy from the beginning. Same for the Revan reveal.

Anyway, I need to actually finish JE this time and explore all the characters more thoroughly. I'm not ready to render an opinion on this quite yet.




So having arrived in Tien's Landing, I have to say JE certainly has a better opening act. Taris in KOTOR really drags on way too damned long. Even knowing most of what I should do, it took me about 2-3 hours. It was just too much damned padding. By contrast, Two Rivers and Li's school establishes the plot, characters, setting and overarching goal for most of the game in about...I dunno, two hours at most. Maybe closer to one.

Also I smurfing love this theme.

[Pike]

I haven't played Jade Empire yet but I bought it on Steam sale so... maybe I'll play it next.

I like KotOR, I don't think it's a 5/5 game but it's a solid 4/5.

How short is Jade Empire? Is it like DA2 short? Because I can basically 100% DA2 in like 30 hours, which always felt really short to me (for DA especially). With KotOR I think it took me closer to 40.

[Forsaken Lover]

Looking at my last save file from my first run which was right at the end, about 22 hours. I didn't 100% everything though.

The thing is, JE feels even shorter than it is. The story isn't structured very well. You'll be thrust headlong into the endgame before you know what's happening and it will leave you wanting because you see almost nothing of this great setting.

[Laddy]

I vote KotOR: II. Can I do that?

[Forsaken Lover]

I vote KotOR: II. Can I do that?

Not a BioWare game so no.

[Pike]

I vote KotOR: II. Can I do that?

Not a BioWare game so no.

Which is probably why he's voting for it

[Forsaken Lover]

I vote KotOR: II. Can I do that?

Not a BioWare game so no.

Which is probably why he's voting for it

I do like KOTOR II more than 1 but the Obsidian fanboyism on some places gets really tiresome, especially from New Vegas fanboys.

OOH, it added a bunch of features you'll never need! How enthralling.

Also I've been told the only thing really great about NWN2 is an expansion pack. That's smurfed up.

[Laddy]

But Obisdian are Good People.

[Forsaken Lover]

But Obisdian are Good People.

I agree, I like KOTOR II and New Vegas a lot. But BioWare are good people too and don't deserve "...but they're no Obsidian."

[Laddy]

They're no Obsidian, though.

[Pike]

Honestly I think I prefer BioWare for story/setting and Obsidian for general gameplay mechanics.

Anyways should we make this a battle royale and bring Bethesda into it? Because Bethesda is great for world-building.

[Forsaken Lover]

They do write far better lore. I love reading TES lore while I never bother with it in DA.

Mass Effect 2 is still the single greatest game I've played of any of the three companies' projects.

[Formalhaut]

Going to have to disagree about the Dragon Age lore; I loved reading about Thedas and magic. I'm contemplating getting The World of Thedas book and just immerse myself more. Really enjoyed Mass Effect's world as well. As far as I'm concerned BioWare does really good world-building with fleshed out characters.

[Pike]

DA lore is great. So is TES lore. I find it difficult to compare the two because I think they are done in two different ways. DA lore is more fluid and straightforward and easier to "study", so to speak. TES lore is twisted and organic and you don't really know what's right and what's wrong. Both are really good in their own right.

TES is really good for giving you a world to run around in and roleplay whatever you want.

[Forsaken Lover]

Observation: I am liking Dawn Star a lot more on this run than my first playthrough. She really is made more for a male PC.

Comparison: Dawn Star and Bastila both work really well because of how you can mold them. Watching Dawn Star embrace the Closed Fist or Bastila the Dark Side is supremely satisfying. The timid Dawn Star, who was once shamed by merely existing, realizes that none of these peons who judged her are worth being worried about. Let them judge her or condemn her, she's not going to be a victim any longer. If they insist on causing her pain, they will be the ones who actually feel it. And Bastila, where to even begin? She was never a particularly exemplary Jedi to begin with. She has so much passion built up in her and it only really leaks out when it comes to her mom and her self-righteous devotion to the Jedi. By showing her how to truly live, you're just making her be more honest with herself.