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Thread: FL Plays the Persona Series

  1. #16
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyblade View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fynn View Post
    FES also contains an additional chapter that takes place after the game. Imo, it's a grindy mess that doesn't really have that good a story, even though a lot of people adore it for some reason, but it's worth a shot if you're into the game!
    Attachment 70649

    Hush you, The Answer isn't that bad. Yes it's more Dungeon Crawler (since it wipes out the element that made P3 interesting such as Social Links and the Calendar system) but it makes sense in context why.
    Eh, no, it really doesn't. It really, really doesn't.

    The AnswerThe friends who save the world together, who have been through so much trout together, lost friends, become allies, saw each other's innermost weaknesses... These people all suddenly act completely out of character and become total assholes towards each other, start to fight over a brand new magical macguffin to the point that the world is in danger of fragmenting over temporal distortions. No, no it doesn't make sense. It's poorly written, poorly implemented, lacks a lot of what made the original great, and really doesn't fit with the character growth that we see of the team throughout Persona 3.

    Literally the only good things about it were the fact that it stars Aigis, and the revelation of Minato's actual Answer at the very end of the chapter.

    Everything else is terrible.
    While I can agree the handling could have been better, I disagree that it's the mess you make it out to be.

    (SPOILER)The only characters really acting irrational is Yukari and to a lesser extent, Aigis herself but since these two were the closest to the Protagonist in-game story, it makes sense they would have the most grief. The rest of the cast is pretty much uncertain about what to do except for Akihiko and Ken who happen to be better off since they are the ones who have had to deal with grief the most out of the whole cast, even in the Journey, these are the two who ultimately bounced back from the most devastating revelations and twists of the story first. Even Mitsuru's decision to stand by Yukari makes sense when you put into context how stubborn she usually is and how important promises are to her, even then, I would argue that she would have probably talked Yukari out of it had she won the conflict, but we'll never know since Aigis won.

    We're also dealing with a group who until a few days before the story started, had lost their memories concerning the Dark Hour and had them returned, and now just lost the one person who held them together throughout all the hardships of the previous year; the anchor of the team that brought everyone together and now they have to learn to cope without. So emotions are raw and high, and in this grief stricken state, it makes sense the party wouldn't exactly be rational. Hell in the original game, the party would mope for weeks after Shinji's death, the betrayal, and the revelations of Ryoji, in all those cases the party knew they had time and often were making choices that reflected what they personally wanted to do such as continue the fight or finally call it quits. Here, as you said, the world is coming apart from temporal distortions, so time is not on their side and their actions wasn't about their personal stake but one that would affect the rest of the world. They had to make a decision soon in this state of grief, and they chose, for better of for worse. The only real conflict came from the two extremes of Akihiko and Yukari and Aigis simply chose to stop both of them before they did create irreparable damage to their groups friendship. Junpei's only conflict was that he seriously wanted to wait and think things through but the party didn't exactly have time to search their feelings, especially if Yukari or Akihiko started to aggressively attack the other groups for their items. Even when all was said, Aigis chose a fourth option which was to learn the truth of what really happened as opposed to change the future or let things be without knowing. Grief is hard to write, because we all want to think we could be rational, but here it was not.


    Of anything, I feel the missed opportunity here was that the choice they made should have been left up to the player to see where they would have sided. Regardless, The Answer is still important to the series because P4 Arena confirms it is canon, whether you liked it or not, but I still feel it was an interesting place to take the series even if it was obvious the devs made it quickly and without the care the main game had.

    Anyway, if we want to keep debating this, I'm fine with that but let's move this to another thread so as not to derail this thread, especially since we should really be talking about the awesomeness of Persona 2 right now. We can pick this up in another thread or later when FL crosses that bridge.

  2. #17
    Skyblade's Avatar
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    Well, my big question: Will Forsaken Lover be playing Persona 5 as well?

    Only a couple more months until the Western release.

    It already smashed the week one release of Persona 4 in Japan (seriously, like 150% of what P4 sold).

  3. #18
    'Just Friends' Formalhaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyblade View Post
    Well, my big question: Will Forsaken Lover be playing Persona 5 as well?

    Only a couple more months until the Western release.

    It already smashed the week one release of Persona 4 in Japan (seriously, like 150% of what P4 sold).
    Oh man oh man I'm so pumped. Don't mention it to me, I think I'll explode. And it's being released like, four days before my birthday!

    But let's hold our horses and discuss Persona 2 while FL is still, you know, on the first P2 game. Actually, apparently several mechanics from P2 are making a comeback in P5, like negotiation and demons, as opposed to the shadows. I'm curious how difficult they are. In SMT IV, getting a demon on your side can be frustrating.

    Actually how are you finding negotiation and contacting demons, FL?


  4. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Formalhaut View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Skyblade View Post
    Well, my big question: Will Forsaken Lover be playing Persona 5 as well?

    Only a couple more months until the Western release.

    It already smashed the week one release of Persona 4 in Japan (seriously, like 150% of what P4 sold).
    Oh man oh man I'm so pumped. Don't mention it to me, I think I'll explode. And it's being released like, four days before my birthday!

    But let's hold our horses and discuss Persona 2 while FL is still, you know, on the first P2 game. Actually, apparently several mechanics from P2 are making a comeback in P5, like negotiation and demons, as opposed to the shadows. I'm curious how difficult they are. In SMT IV, getting a demon on your side can be frustrating.

    Actually how are you finding negotiation and contacting demons, FL?
    I find talking to demons very addicting. In fact, I was so fixated on figuring out each one of them that I kept forgetting to keep killing them too and some of them offered me contracts but then said I was too low level.

    I thought about asking if demon negotiating was in the other games. I guess you answered it for me. That's kinda disappointing.

    I haven't played much in the last couple days, I'm going out of town next month and am stressing over some stuff. I'll keep at the game though. I'll be sure to post next time I make some serious progress.

  5. #20
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyblade View Post
    Well, my big question: Will Forsaken Lover be playing Persona 5 as well?

    Only a couple more months until the Western release.

    It already smashed the week one release of Persona 4 in Japan (seriously, like 150% of what P4 sold).
    I'm honestly more excited for P5 than I am FFXV at this point. Daybreakers was sweet and got me stoked for the main event. The game is stylish as smurf, and it looks like they finally fixed the uninspired dungeon design problem the series has been dealing with for awhile now.

    FL - Yeah, making contracts with demons is how they'll start handing out Free Cards in addition to their normal cards and I can totally understand becoming addicted to it. It's a bit more robust in Eternal Punishment, but yeah, P3 and 4 drop the mechanic, but it looks like a very simplified version is coming back for P5.

  6. #21
    Radical Dreamer Cid's Knight Fynn's Avatar
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    If you like the demon negotiation, FL, you might want to give the mainline SMT series a shot. It's a bit heavier in terms of plot and is not as character-focused, but there's always demon negotiation and I honestly always thought the way it's handled in Persona is pretty weak in comparison, I'm happy to see the negotiation system in P5 seems to be looking more in line with the main entries than the old Persona system.

  7. #22
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    I'd say it varies from game to game really. Negotiations were not terribly useful in Nocturne for instance, and P2 Eternal Punishment did them the best within the Persona series since they focused more on the group dialogue options. My favorite set was one called a 100 Ghost Stories, which amusingly enough, is not just a name for show. There actually is a hundred different ghost stories the characters will tell and the results on demons is hilarious. I think I enjoyed them better in P2 because many of them were designed to really expand the characters and how their relationships. I mean where else can you watch a demon get confused as all hell while listening to two guys argue over Japanese baseball or watch two girls do a terrible stand up comedian act?

    Then again...
    FB_IMG_1472255225636.jpg
    Last edited by Wolf Kanno; 09-26-2016 at 04:49 PM.

  8. #23
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    You are right to be more excited for P5 Wolf. FFXV looks very iffy and I don't trust Square to deliver a compelling narrative any more. Persona 5 on the other hand is flat out excellent. Easily the best JRPG since the PS2 era. I won't officially judge it until the English release since my Japanese isn't that great, but it takes the best of P3 and mixes it with the best of P4. Add in the best dungeons in the entire MegaTen series, and you have a recipe for success.

    Oh, and negotiation works like this. Once you knock every enemy down via hitting their weaknesses, you go into hold up mode. In this mode you can choose to demand items, money, ask them to become your demon, or execute an all out attack. Choose to make them your demon, and you have to answer a series of questions. Make the demon happy and they will join. Scare the demon and it will either join or run away. Piss the demon off and it will attack you, and the battle continues.

    Be careful though, since demons can do this too. If your party gets knocked down, the demons will take one of your characters hostage. Failure in negotiation leads to the demons executing this character.
    "Repent your sins through death!" - Ramirez - Skies of Arcadia

  9. #24
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bright Shield View Post
    You are right to be more excited for P5 Wolf. FFXV looks very iffy and I don't trust Square to deliver a compelling narrative any more. Persona 5 on the other hand is flat out excellent. Easily the best JRPG since the PS2 era. I won't officially judge it until the English release since my Japanese isn't that great, but it takes the best of P3 and mixes it with the best of P4. Add in the best dungeons in the entire MegaTen series, and you have a recipe for success.

    Oh, and negotiation works like this. Once you knock every enemy down via hitting their weaknesses, you go into hold up mode. In this mode you can choose to demand items, money, ask them to become your demon, or execute an all out attack. Choose to make them your demon, and you have to answer a series of questions. Make the demon happy and they will join. Scare the demon and it will either join or run away. Piss the demon off and it will attack you, and the battle continues.

    Be careful though, since demons can do this too. If your party gets knocked down, the demons will take one of your characters hostage. Failure in negotiation leads to the demons executing this character.
    Okay, that's smurfing awesome.

  10. #25
    Slothstronaut Slothy's Avatar
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    That does sound awesome.

  11. #26
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    So FL, any updates or has life taken over?

  12. #27

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    I have not abandoned the thread, I promise! I was just away for a couple weeks at home with family who I haven't sen in years.

    Right now I just got out of the Bomb Shelter. No idea how I did it.

    I've also finally gotten Fusion Spells down so that's yay. I'll have to wait for the next boss or later dungeons but at present it seems like a very easy game. Quite frankly the most frustrating part are Contacting some of the demons. I mean, how the hell can it be both Cheerful and Angry?! How do you appeal to that?!

    I can't really say much on story/characters except I'll hazard a guess the other Boy from Tatsuya's flashback is now The Joker. It was a really sweet scene. The talk with Maya that triggered it was nice, too. I only really like Lisa and Yukino at present so it was nice for these two to get some time to be emotional.

    I do have to wonder two things:

    1. Are these five the only playable characters all game?

    2. How important are my decisions as Tatsuya? Right now the most significant things I can think of that I've done are say I want to go to college and I let Eikichi handle that being beaten to a pulp scene by himself. Because if shounen anime and manga has taught me anything, unreasonable pride is more important than helping your friends.

    I wanted to wait until I got further to post but I figure I made you all feel like I abandoned you and that is not the case. It's just, tweo weeks away from the Internet, I have so much to catch up on just on my YouTube subscriptions alone.
    Last edited by Forsaken Lover; 11-07-2016 at 07:29 AM.

  13. #28
    Memento Mori Site Contributor Wolf Kanno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forsaken Lover View Post

    I do have to wonder two things:

    1. Are these five the only playable characters all game?
    No, there is more than just the five but I wouldn't get your hopes up.

    2. How important are my decisions as Tatsuya? Right now the most significant things I can think of that I've done are say I want to go to college and I let Eikichi handle that being beaten to a pulp scene by himself. Because if shounen anime and manga has taught me anything, unreasonable pride is more important than helping your friends.
    More than you would think, though most of them are only reflected in gameplay. The actual "face their problem" scenarios will eventually unlock the Prime Personas for Tatsuya, Maya, Lisa, and Eikichi. Tatsuya's requires you made all the right choices for the other three. These unlock upgraded versions of their starting personas with way better stats and abilities that are great mid-game additions while you're trying to level up to use their Ultimates; Yukina doesn't get a Prime persona but her scenario unlocks her Ultimate Persona . Some decisions come back later as well such as the questions you're homeroom teacher asks you at the game's beginning. There is also some decision (though not many) that will change the fate of a few story characters and some that will affect dungeons as well.

    Story choices have a much greater impact in the first entry which had multiple endings and two story paths, course it was also a real bitch to figure out how to get the best ending from it as well and lord knows opening up the Snow Queen quest could feel really counter-intuitive.

  14. #29

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    I still only have one Persona for everyone. That's normal, right for this point in teh game?

    So there aren't multiple endings in this game?

    I know one of the later Persona games has multiple endings. Some Let's Players I watch once talk about it. LP'er 1 asked his buddy if he got the real final boss and dungeon. LPer 2 said he fought a giant eye guy. That wasn't the REAL ending. To get said ending you gotta go meet your buddies and say something specific.

    Sounds like a load of crap, by the way.

  15. #30
    Radical Dreamer Cid's Knight Fynn's Avatar
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    Yeah, Persona 4 does this. Tbh, it kinda goes with the theme of the game, about reaching out to the truth and looking for it even if it looks like everything has already been resolved. But yeah, it's kinda hard to see how to get it without a guide. To be fair, though, Golden makes it much more clear that there is still something you can do, so the true ending feels less forced.

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