It surprises me that someone who could post this thread, would miss the central point of P5, which is simply that if you want the world to be a better place, you have to have the courage to stand up and do it, and not simply wait for someone else to come along and fix the world. Change begins with the individual. There's a reason why the Deadly Sin associated with (SPOILER)the collective unconsciousness of humanity is Sloth. It ties back into the game focusing so much time talking about social media and how the Phantom Thieves were trending, not because it's simply a modern element of society, but it's also a commentary on it's negative impact on society and how social media blinds us into thinking that commenting on some hot button issue deludes us into thinking we're "helping" when we're simply being a spectator.Originally Posted by Forsaken Lover
So you agree with the game's idea that THOSE ROTTEN ADULTS are the source of all the problems in the world?
Believe me, I know I'm in the minority that thinks this game is a piece of crap. But at least it looks like some people recognize P4 did the social dynamics better. I cannot even fathom how anybody could prefer the Phantom Thieves to the Investigation Team. The IT had infinitely more time and care put into setting up their dynamics and friendship than the PT did. That's just an objective fact.
Yes, it's the fault of adults, but that's what you would expect if you were a teenager with no say on social matters and being mistreated by a corrupt system that benefits the few at the exploitation of those who can't do anything to really better there lives. It's especially poignant since Japan is very hierarchical society and it's expected that the adults look out for the next generation, and instead the game has them only looking out for themselves. It's something I feel in my own country as my parents generation is certainly more interested in protecting their own self-interest than leave anything for my generation or the one after mine. So I would say P5's themes hit pretty hard and close to home.
The P4 cast got more screen time showing they were best buds, that I can agree on. Where I disagree is whether that was actually important to the plot and something that helped the game. For me, I don't feel like it did. P4 was too much "slice of life" and not enough "murder mystery". I don't care that Kanji is going to get another comical scene of himself tripping over his words as he confronts Naoto once again about his mixed feelings, or listening to Yusuke ramble on about the MC being his partner and only friend for the umpteenth time. I wanted to solve an intricate murder mystery, not see what the Scooby Gang does on their days off. So damn straight I love the fact that P5's cast stuck to their objective and didn't waste my time with Ski Trips and school festivals, and instead focused on actually trying to make the world a better place.
I liked the fact the MC had a moment of story and gameplay integration by having him be upfront about how he was using his social links as a means to an end. Hell I appreciated the fact the game drove us away from the typical student shenanigans of P3 and 4 and allowed us to focus more on the outcasts of society. Listening to your classmates opening gossip about you and treat you like dirt instead of being the Mary Sue the past protagonists have been was pretty damn refreshing.
I mean P4's plot is kind of boring because you spend most of it just running in place. Your party isn't closer to solving the case from stopping the third victim as they were to the second to last one. Almost all of them stop questioning the TV world whereas P5 keeps the existence of the app and the cognitive world as a constant mystery. The party doesn't even try to actually make a real investigation outside of the plan to just catch the criminal in the act, and in the end, the real criminal has a patsy so their one plan was actually not going to help them. I just kind of kept waiting for the story to go somewhere and it never really does. Even the kind of phoned in "Full Moon" bosses from P3 had an in-game to them within the story so even if it became routine petty quickly, you still felt like the party was advancing towards something.
To me P5 spend an adequate amount of time building up the cast and their relationship, but it wasn't there relationship that was important. In fact P5 largely avoids the hokey "friendship is magic speech" and the real test of the main characters faith in his comrades deals with the culmination of the investigation into the Phantom Thieves. Hell I appreciate the fact that the ending deals with the characters trying resolve (SPOILER)the main characters Juvenal Record issue by actually going out and getting the word out to people and become civically active to undo an injustice. It ties in with the games central theme of "doing, not talking, to invoke change" and I felt it was a more heartfelt friendship moment than watching the cast of P4 do a third running gag about how none of the girls can cook. I mean I get it, the P4 cast likes each other, can we get back to solving a supernatural serial killer case?
This is not to say that I feel P4 didn't have it's strengths, or strong messages, but for me, the heavy handed slice of life element eventually bored me. P3 did a better job of balancing the student stuff while also keeping you invested in a dark conspiracy about the Midnight Hour and the Shadows. Likewise, I enjoyed the fact P5 was a series of escalations as your small team of thieves begin to make a major impact on society and the social aspect really felt more like your character spending time to make contacts to help him with his goals as opposed to just doing stuff on his off time. I ultimately just prefer the more narrow focus P5 provided and frankly, I liked P5s cast way more than P4s. In fact P4 only ranks slightly higher than P1s for me as I found most of the cast uninteresting or grating and I feel less time on "friendship is the best thing ever" could have saved them from some of those mixed feelings I have for them.
As for P2 versus P4, I agree with Fynn that P2 is largely a deconstruction on the whole "power of friendship" spiel. At least the first game does, but that's because P2 had a real villain who was pretty genre savvy and knew how to exploit it for his own benefit. P2 also had minor message of "adults are useless" before the second half completely subverts it, and it's the adults that ultimately set everything right. P4 is a typical anime plot where believing in yourself and your friends is enough to make the impossible possible, which is frankly a dime a dozen in this medium alone. That is why P4 is not as special to me, especially since I feel the real world is a bit more complicated compared to the overly idealistic game. It's why I like the fact P2 makes choosing to let your comrades deal with their issues is the right choice because while it's great to have friends who will back you up, it's important to also be self-sufficient and not drag other people into your own baggage, especially when it's dealing with things only you who can resolve. Oddly, P4 kind of did this as well since the only thing the party did was prevent the Shadow from killing their other self when they were denied. It is still up to the character to resolve their own internal conflict.
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